Hygrometers and humidifiers

[fronobulax]

Although I have never had a problem with guitars and humidity, the combination of the B-50 and the onset of the heating season makes me wonder if I should be doing something.

A hygrometer measures relative humidity. Several places suggest that a guitar in a case does not need a humidifier if the relative humidity is 40% or higher.

a) Is there an alternative to spending $20 to get a hygrometer to take one measurement? (Sorry, I am not about to buy one, take the measurement and return it, although that seems to be a popular way to watch the Super Bowl on upgraded equipment). A "free" way to estimate humidity, perhaps, or a rule of thumb based upon things I already have and can measure?

b) Is the 40% number "firm" or is it something like when to change your car's oil? The manufacturer says one thing, the local mechanic (who may or may not be an expert) says another and the truly paranoid motorist changes the oil at the most frequent interval suggested.

c) Is there any potential harm in over-humidifying? In other words getting a humidifier and using it regardless of what the relative humidity is?

d) Anyone have any experience with the Oasis Case Humidifier? I know I can improvise with a soap dish but I like the idea that there is no way water can leak out of the Oasis and the fact that it is in the case and so would not have to be removed when a bass was taken out to play.

Thanks.

 

[naolslager]

I'm new to this. I just bought one of those spong-type humidifiers for my D-15M. Don't know if I needed it or not but I did not want to take any chances with my most expensive guitar.

 

[Scratch]

Always a good question that probably plagues all of us a bit. I've tried different measures.

Last year I broke down and purchased a hygrometer which I keep in the 'Guild Closet along with a small room humidifier. When the hygrometer reads 40 or below, I turn the humidifier on low and close the door. When the humidity reaches 55 or higher (usualy 15 minutes or so) I turn it off and recheck every four or five hours.

I normally run it about 20 minutes before I go to bed then turn it off as I hit the sack. In almost every case, (no pun intended) the humidity reads 40 or above when I check first thing in the morning. On another 20 minutes or so and it is good for several more hours. I'm sure the frequency/humidity level would vary in different climes. All in all the humidifier is on an average of an hour a day.

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

B. The recommended range is 40% to 50% humidity. This is the commonly quoted range across a number sources. Here is a link to a recent Guild owners manual that talks about it:
http://www.guildguitars.com/CDN/support/manuals/current_manuals/Guild_Owners_Manual_2007.pdf

See Page 6 of that PDF.

The patron saint of Guitar Humidity Awareness is Bob Taylor. He has this to say:
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/features/woods/humidity/default.aspx

C. Yes, there is such a thing as over humidifying. Less scary than being too dry though.

D. I use the Oasis humidifier in all of my guitar cases. Like you, I'm paranoid about spilling a cup or two of water inside a soundhole or case. I like them quite a bit. I would consider them a light duty humidifier. One of them won't keep up in a very cold/dry climate. Works well in a moderately dry climate.

~nw

 

[wontox]

Hi Frono,

I keep four guitars on hangers, in my office, out of their cases all the time. Here in the Northeast, the treble strings on my two fairly high-end Chinese-made (Blueridge and RK) dreads start slapping a bit around this time of year (the wood stove is in another room of course) and I shim up the saddles with a proper length and thickness of guitar string. Works fine and doesn't seem to affect tone. The shim comes out in the spring. My '67 Vox Country Western and '70 D 40, which are always out of their cases show no difference seasonally; is it age or quality; I wonder why these two old timers don't change with the radical change in temp and humidity like the newer dreads. Any comments anyone?

Wontox

 

[silverfox103]

I have been playing nylon string guitars for 30 odd years. I never worried about humidity, until I found this forum. Now I'm all concerned. So, about a week ago I went down to WalMart and bought a $25 humidifier and a $3 humidity gage. I have an average size office with my computers etc. and 5 guitars (3 in cases).

I run the humidifier all nite and then sometimes during the day when I'm not around. I figure in a 24 hour period they get plenty of moisture, also the guitars don't dry out as quickly as the air. In the 30 years before the humidifier, I have never had a problem. So the old guitars must be doing real good now.

That's my story.

Tom C.

 

[mpluthier]

Hi everyone, I am a new member and first time poster. I have been a full time professional luthier for the last 32 years. I have been a Gold Level Fender/Guild technician since 1991. I was an authorized Guild dealer from 1984 to 1990. I currently own three Guilds, and have owned many more in the past.
I felt moved to respond to this topic based on a lifetime of experience. Every February for the last 32 years I've spent most of my time fixing cracks, re-gluing bridges, and filing fret ends on guitars whose owners didn't use humidifiers. Humidifying is important. If you live in an area where you heat your home during the winter, and haven't had problems before, you were simply lucky.
50 % is ideal. At 40%- 45% you will likely require a set up. At 30%-40% you are in danger of cracks, protruding fret ends,
and lifting bridges. Below 30% you are in SERIOUS trouble. Electric guitars, of course, are immune to some of these issues, but are still made from wood, and will require more frequent and more dramatic adjustment if they are allowed to dry out.
Play it safe. Get a digital room hygrometer, and if the room where you store your instruments frequently falls below 40%,
Keep them in their cases with a case humidifier. Oasis works fine, so does Herco and many others.
I really enjoy LTG and hope to find time to post occasionally in the future. Thanks.

 

[Ross]

Welcome, mpluthier! The voice of experience is always welcome.

I'd like to second your advice. I left my Guild out of its case, on a stand, unhumidified, for 20 years. I scoffed at the warnings.

Then the bridge plate cracked.

Now it's in a case, with an Oasis humidifier. I don't bother with a hygrometer, I simply fill the Oasis twice a week. I'm not concerned about overhumidification (not in a heated, dry Canadian home).

 

[adorshki]

Hi everyone, I am a new member and first time poster. I have been a full time professional luthier for the last 32 years. I have been a Gold Level Fender/Guild technician since 1991. I was an authorized Guild dealer from 1984 to 1990. I currently own three Guilds...

HI MP! Welcome aboard! Where are you? Might want to steer you some business!

 

[FNG]

Hi everyone, I am a new member and first time poster. I have been a full time professional luthier for the last 32 years. I have been a Gold Level Fender/Guild technician since 1991. I was an authorized Guild dealer from 1984 to 1990. I currently own three Guilds, and have owned many more in the past.
I felt moved to respond to this topic based on a lifetime of experience. Every February for the last 32 years I've spent most of my time fixing cracks, re-gluing bridges, and filing fret ends on guitars whose owners didn't use humidifiers. Humidifying is important. If you live in an area where you heat your home during the winter, and haven't had problems before, you were simply lucky.
50 % is ideal. At 40%- 45% you will likely require a set up. At 30%-40% you are in danger of cracks, protruding fret ends,
and lifting bridges. Below 30% you are in SERIOUS trouble. Electric guitars, of course, are immune to some of these issues, but are still made from wood, and will require more frequent and more dramatic adjustment if they are allowed to dry out.
Play it safe. Get a digital room hygrometer, and if the room where you store your instruments frequently falls below 40%,
Keep them in their cases with a case humidifier. Oasis works fine, so does Herco and many others.
I really enjoy LTG and hope to find time to post occasionally in the future. Thanks.

That pretty much says it all.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I purchased 2 different room hygrometers.
One is a Planet Wave [$40.00] and the other is a Wal-Mart purchased Springfield [$7.00].
They stay within 2% of each other. With that said, I would not hesitate recommending the Springfield.
Your guitars are well worth the few dollars that a humidifier and a hygrometer cost.

You will want to use the hygrometer 24-7 all rear round to get total protection for your guitar.
The humidifier will be used when the hygrometer reading tells you to.
I keep a humidifier inside all my guitar's cases all year around here in Utah.
We have very low humidity.
I will keep one of the hygrometers rotated between all of the guitar cases and I never get above 50% humidity inside any the cases with humidifiers also inside the case.

Your mileage may very.

 

[john_kidder]

I don't understand a requirement to keep a guitar in a case for proper humidification. If the room humidity is in a decent range, then the guitars will be. No?

I'd hate to have my guitars in cases all the time - they'd never get played.

Tell me it isn't so?

 

[learnintoplay62]

Thanks guys. Ah, TMG, what's a Springfield ?

 

[cjd-player]

When we toured the Guild facility in New Hartford there were hygrometers in every room measuring the relative humidity. So yes humidity is a big deal. Some species of wood can move by as much as 1/4 inch across a 12-inch wide board with a swing in humidity from 30 to 60%, and vise versa. Guild, and virtually every other guitar manufacturer, keep the relative humidity between 40 to 55% so that the wood remains dimensionally stable during construction. Imagine cutting the pieces to size only to have them change size over night or over a weekend before the guitar is assembled.

So the reason that we keep the guitars at 40 to 55% RH is because that was the humidity level when they were built. If the RH drops too low, the wood shrinks. Worst case, it cracks. If the RH goes too high the wood expands. Braces pop off and joints separate.

Given the expense of repairs and the loss of resale value for a repaired guitar, it seems silly to complain about spending $20 to $30 bucks to put a hygrometer in each guitar case. And yes, in the case is the safest place for them. With a digital hygrometer and an inexpensive humidity source (You can get a Damp-it for about $7.) it is easy to maintain the relative humidity in the case year round. So worst case, you've spent $40 to prevent a repair and loss of resale value. That's a no brainer to me.

I don't think that there is any question that Taylor has the best and most extensive information on the effects of humidity on a guitar. The videos of Bob Taylor putting a guitar into a humidity cabinet to intentionally dry and crack it are pretty amazing. Then he closes the cracks by rehumidifying the guitar with Damp-its.

Can you keep them out of the cases? Yes, if you are sure of the RH in your room. But that can be tricky if you have the guitars hanging on a wall because the air will be warmer and drier near the ceiling. Moral of the story ... buy at least one hygrometer. Make sure they are properly calibrated, and maintain the proper humidity

 

[jgwoods]

I have used Oasis and Planet Waves humidifiers, in fact the NH GSR F-40 I have came with a Planet Waves so I guess you could say Guild recommends them.

I don't use them much because I use a room humidifier to keep things right and, on the rare occasions when I want in instrument to get a good dose of humidity I use 3 chunks of sponge in pierced sandwich baggies- one through the sound hole and to the inside, one up by the headstock and the other down by the tail- close them all into the case, leave for 3 days and bingo-low action problem gone every time. It happens most often around this time of year on my 1917 Gibson A4 mandolin.

 

[timbo2]

In 1976 I got a special order 512 (or whatever they were called back then) from the factory. The guitar arrived with one of those hanging donkey-d**k humidifiers - I didn't even know what it was! Once someone explained it to me I figured if they sent it from the factory with a humidifier it probably is important. Been using case humidifiers in winter ever since - everything from film canisters filled with sponge bits & holes punched throughout, to more expensive rigs. It's well worth the minimal time and effort.

 

[wileypickett]

I posted this elsewhere, but it's more apropos here. Forgive the duplication.

I was, in a past life, of the opinion that humidifying guitars was strictly for anal-compulsive fruitcakes. I'd been playing since I was 14, had subjected my guitars to every indignity imaginable, and nothing too awful ever happened. (What I put my Harmony Sovereign through!)

Then, one of my first 12-strings, an old Washburn, which I had sitting in a stand when I went away for two weeks one December, was unplayable when I got back home. The front of the bridge facing the sound-hole had sunk, and the back of the bridge had come partially unglued and pulled up about 16 degrees, along with the top of the guitar below the bridge, so much so that the heavier gauge strings went straight from the bridge-pin holes to the nut -- without even touching the saddle!

I couldn’t believe a guitar could be so completely ruined in the space of two weeks. I took it to my guitar repair guy, whose first questions was, "How do you heat your house?"; and whose second was, "How do you store your guitars when you're not playing them?"

Once bitten, twice shy. I've been humidifying ever since.

Forced air heating -- which is how my house is heated -- not only dries out wood, I learned, but it can also break down the glue that holds a guitar together. (I come across guitars with partially unglued braces, bridge lift, etc., fairly often here in New England.)

I've used Damp-Its, Planet Waves, and Oasis humidifiers. They all seem to work fine. I prefer the latter, which let you know by the embarrassing way they shrivel up (shrinkage) when they need refilling.

With the cold temps hitting Boston now, I notice that I'm refilling them almost twice as often (about every four days) as I was in warm weather.

BTW: Cigar humidor hygrometers are an inexpensive alternative to what they charge for the ones specifically made for guitars.

Glenn//.

 

[markus]

I keep some Guitars in cases with humidifiers and hygrometers, and some hanging on the wall in the living room with a room humidifyer running in heating season. It's easy to keep RH at 45-55% and it's healthy too - not only for the guitars: Your voice could be a precious instrument too!
Markus

 

[fronobulax]

Thanks.

My take so far.

Buy a hygrometer and monitor the room(s) with the guitars. It will be cheap compared to the repair or replacement cost.

Use some kind of humidifier when the room gets below 40% and cease use if it ever gets up to 55%.

Since my instruments are always in cases or being played, a case humidifier seems to make sense. No one has problems with the Oasis although there are alternatives - commercial and home made.

Just like there are stories of 3 pack a day smokers who survive into their 90's and die in a car accident with no evidence of cancer, there are stories of guitars that have never had problems with humidity. However there is no guarantee that my guitars will be the lucky ones so better safe than sorry.

Thanks.

 

[mbaker824]

There are as many opinions on this subject as there are guitar players, so I'll throw mine in too. Humidifying is particularly important to me because I live in Phoenix, where relative humidity is very low almost year-round. Someone mentioned Bob Taylor's videos about humidity, and I agree they're well worth watching. Check them out at http://www.taylorguitars.com/see-hear/d ... x?id=1004; there's one titled Humidity: The Symptoms, another called Humidity: The Solution, and a third named The Humidity Chamber.

I keep my guitars in my bedroom, and I used to keep them in their cases when they weren't being played. I like the Oasis case humidifiers a lot, particularly since they make a high-output one for desert climates, and they also make a soundhole humidifier that works well; I used to use them both. For guitars in cases, the best method, in my opinion, is Humidipak. There were problems with the packs when it first came out but since the redesign they're safe and work very well. They are a bit pricey, but for highly-prized instruments, well worth the money. The best thing about Humidipak is that it can compensate for either low or high humidity; that is, it will release moisture in dry air and absorb it in humid air. Only works in a case, though.

Getting guitars into and out of their cases all the time gets to be a pain in the butt after a while, though. Now I use a room humidifier in my bedroom; a Sunbeam model with a built-in humidistat that I picked up at Home Depot for $90. It's billed as a whole-house humidifier, but not where I live. It does a very good job of keeping my bedroom at 50% RH, though. The humidistat turns it on and off automatically to maintain a preset humidity level, much like a thermostat maintains temperature. Now I keep a couple of guitars out on stands all the time, and I've had no problems. When I'm going to be away for a while I just pack them into their cases with case humidifiers.

One thing most people miss about humidity is air circulation. If the air in the room is completely still, the moisture tends to settle toward the floor, so it can be significantly more humid near the floor than up on the wall. It also makes humidity measurements unstable - a hygrometer in still air will tend to show a number that bounces around a lot, but it'll stabilize within seconds of turning on an appropriately-placed fan. Since the air in a case is obviously still, humidity measurement in guitar cases is unreliable, so I don't do that. I keep the ceiling fan in my bedroom set to draw air upward and keep it running on low all the time. The setup works very well for me.

Mark