How do you talk the price down?

[fronobulax]

Someone who walks away for 50 cents is a) just a jerk, b) didn't want your item anyway or c) has already seen it at a lower price elsewhere.

I responded because most of the people I have dealt with who do walk away are the people who are not necessarily there to buy anything but are there for the "enjoyable parts" of bartering. The $.50 example was a real case but I have had people of the same mindset walk away from $500 when they offered $490. Some of it is just communications. I have no problem letting folks know that my price is firm or I won't go any lower. I do have a problem when they ask for my best offer, I give it to them and then they make a counter. I gave them my best and final offer in good faith and that is what it was, but they interpreted it as an invitation to continue to negotiate.

 

[adorshki]

I gave them my best and final offer in good faith and that is what it was, but they interpreted it as an invitation to continue to negotiate.

That's where the "commitment" question ("If I do that will you buy it?") becomes so valuable if you're not just in it for "sport". :wink:
I have to admit that's part of what gves car dealers the bad rep though, that so many sales negotiations are commenced with just that question. Most people will say "H-l yes I'd buy that brand new car for $5,000.00" knowing full well it's impossible. But the main job was accomplished right there, discerning the level of commitment.
The problem was that an unrealistic offer was tendered to obtain commitment.
It's hard not to feel like it's not made in bad faith, as Alpep points out.
A real pro knows he doesn't really need to toss out an unrealistic number to obtain commitment, it's much better to ask the customer what they think the car is worth, and WHY, or what they can afford, and WHY, and THEN ask if they would buy it if their conditions could be met. That's why Guildman and his customer came to a mutually satisfuying agreement.

It should be noted that terms, like price, are negotiable, but conditions are not.
Classic example is offering a cash discount, or Alpep's mention that he won't forgive sales tax on an interstate shipment or treat a credit card as "same as cash" because of the service overhead. Or that price is based on pickup, not delivery.

True, many conditions are "assumed" in small dollar value sales, but it's often forgotten that a price tag in retail store is still technically an "offer to treat" and you could attempt to find a manager who could ACCEPT a counter-offer, and make it.
But most people will elect to simply get through the register as quickly as possible.
AS well, many people perceive the art of negotiating as simply throwing prices at each other until they meet in the middle, when in fact all that is is simply arguing price on the ASSUMPTION that a SALE is in fact being negotiated, see what I mean?
Another golden rule is defining these critical elements of actually being able to enter into a contract:
1: Who (buyer/seller)
2: What (good or Service)
3: How many
4: When
5: Where (delievry location of good or service to buyer)
6: Price ("consideration" in legalese)
Again, many of these conditions are assumed in the typical retail sale, but if one considers, every one of them is an element affecting price, as in Christopher's example that if you need a plumber in an emergency on a Sunday morning (Delivering SERVICE, when and where) you're not as likely to shop his price around around as if you're just shopping for some new fixtures...and if he can't deliver, price is irrelevant.
Frono, not to imply you aren't aware of most if not all of these ideas, but your comment simply happened to be a good peg to hang them on.
:wink:

 

[fronobulax]

<VEER>
I hate buying cars. I was looking for a used car, had done my research, knew what was available and so on. Test drove a car with a factory Certified Pre-Owned inspection and warranty. Salesman asked me for a price - what would I pay? I threw out a number that was $2000 less than I expected to pay, going low because I expected a counter. It was accepted and we left with the car.

But over the next several months there were some suspicions problems that were consistent with flood damage (that was undisclosed, and if true should have prevented the car from being sold with the Certified Pre-Owned moniker). To this day I don't know whether:

• My negotiating skills were good.[/*:m:fki9uoch]
• My research was bad.[/*:m:fki9uoch]
• They weren't lying when they said the salesperson was new and needed to make a sale.[/*:m:fki9uoch]
• They knew the car had flood damage and was fraudulently inspected as Certified Pre-Owned and (correctly) surmised I wouldn't be able to do anything about it.[/*:m:fki9uoch]

I'm over it and we're still driving the car and even with the flood repairs we probably paid what I was willing to pay.
</VEER>

 

[adorshki]

Oops, double post.
:lol:

 

[adorshki]

I'm over it and we're still driving the car and even with the flood repairs we probably paid what I was willing to pay.

I suspect this may be one of those legal areas that varies by state, but if you haven't already, you may want to check with your DMV for any law regarding incorrect written statements about a vehicle's condition.
I asuume you'd have to prove there was in fact flood damage, and I realize that may not actually be possible...except...there may be an insurance record of a claim in a title history... :wink:
In California it's grounds to return the vehicle without a time limitation even if there was no actual fraudulent act or intent, but simply "misrepresented" in some tangible aspect. (Or at least it was when I was in the business about twenty years ago).
On second read it sounds as if it's moot for you now but maybe it'll help somebody else.
RE: your negotiating skills:
Yeah, they sucked... :lol: But so did theirs. If you had asked them if they would accept your offer instead of actually offering it, you would still have had an opportunity not to close, but in some states if offer is made AND accepted on the spot it's a legal contract under tort law.
AND that's how the commitment question can be used by the buyer, to come back full circle to Darryl's question.
:wink:

 

[tjmangum]

Someone who walks away for 50 cents is a) just a jerk, b) didn't want your item anyway or c) has already seen it at a lower price elsewhere.

I responded because most of the people I have dealt with who do walk away are the people who are not necessarily there to buy anything but are there for the "enjoyable parts" of bartering. The $.50 example was a real case but I have had people of the same mindset walk away from $500 when they offered $490. Some of it is just communications. I have no problem letting folks know that my price is firm or I won't go any lower. I do have a problem when they ask for my best offer, I give it to them and then they make a counter. I gave them my best and final offer in good faith and that is what it was, but they interpreted it as an invitation to continue to negotiate.

I used to be the kind of guy who always had to have a "DEAL" and I walked away from many things that I wanted, because I wasn't getting it exactly how I wanted it. After a period of years, I started thinking about what I had left on the table and walked away from and it seemed I regretted many of the deals I didn't do!
I now find myself trying to work towards a true "win-win" form of negotiation. In some cases, where someone is desperate, I have paid more than they asked simply to help them out and not take advantage of their circumstances. Paying an extra 50 or 100 dollars for a guitar you might treasure for the next 20 years is well worth while. And if anyone comes across that DV-62 I negotiated myself out of in San Jose a number of years ago, I want a second chance!
T

 

[6L6]

CASH is KING!

Bill

 

[adorshki]

Paying an extra 50 or 100 dollars for a guitar you might treasure for the next 20 years is well worth while. And if anyone comes across that DV-62 I negotiated myself out of in San Jose a number of years ago, I want a second chance!
T

A perfect example of the difference between "VALUE" and "PRICE".
Different people place different values on different things.
It can actually make negotiating fun.
Or "interesting' at least.
:lol:

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Thanks for the help, Guilders. I got a deal on a 1968 tenor freshperson. http://www.gbase.com/gear/guild-freshma ... 968-cherry

 

[guildman63]

The politically correct version of the Freshman!

 

[adorshki]

Thanks for the help, Guilders. I got a deal on a 1968 tenor freshperson. http://www.gbase.com/gear/guild-freshma ... 968-cherry

Well everybody knows you can always talk those Gbase guys down.
:lol:
Congrats! Looks sweet! Love the color!.

 

[jcwu]

So if offering too low of a price as a buyer is called a low-ball offer, is pricing something too high by a seller a high-ball offer?

 

[Los Angeles]

So if offering too low of a price as a buyer is called a low-ball offer, is pricing something too high by a seller a high-ball offer?

More like an eightball offer:

 

[jcwu]

You know, this image pretty much describes what happened to me when I first met my wife...

 

[mad dog]

DJ Granite's observations are right on target.

One thing about Gbase. Some of those prices are sky high, unrealistic, and the dealers know it. They aim high, sometimes come down a little, but I suspect make the real money by a combination of high pricing and very favorable (to them) trade terms. So step one for me is to forget trades. That gives the dealer two ways to make money on you ... makes it much harder to get a reasonable deal.

After that, it's as DJ says, mostly. If I make an offer to a dealer, I try to do it in person. I make it fair, and I tell them exactly why it's fair, demonstrating my knowledge of what similar instruments are selling for elsewhere. Make the offer, leave your contact info, then go. The first no can become a yes. Notice how many of these gbase used instruments stay posted for months, even years? Some of those dealers never budge, don't appear interested in selling. Others are. Being polite and well informed sometimes makes the difference.

The in person part is key for me. I show up, and go back. I consign instruments at my favorite shops, buy when I can. It's much easier when you deal with reputable people, and get to know them. Relationships help.
MD

 

[Ridgemont]

I don't really buy a lot of used stuff. My previous 2 guitars (both Martins) were purchased at the common 40% off of list discount from my reputable online crack, I mean, guitar dealer.

In the past I have purchased a few guitars off of Craigslist and local stores. Sometimes I would ask them to go lower and they would. Other times I would offer a lower price.

Maybe I am a fool, but I look for a fair price. If I see an item on CL that is fairly priced, I do not try and take advantage and get them to go lower. I do this because I have gotten low ball offers on items I have tried to sell so I know how it feels. It is a waste of time for seller as well as the buyer.

That being said, and while I hate haggling, I understand that many get their kicks in trying to score a deal. Because of that, when I go to sell an instrument on CL, I assess its value and list it for a little bit more. 10 times out of 10, the eventual buyer will "talk me down" to the real price and everybody goes home happy. Messed up world in my opinion.