Help dating an old Hoboken era Guild Starfire IV

[Marshall Arts]

Hi, folks.

I'm new to this forum and I'm new to guilds, having been a solid body kind of guy all my time playing guitar. Gibson Les Pauls and teles. Mostly hard rock and metal, but I tend to explore other styles as well.

I recently inherited my late grandfathers old Guild Starfire IV that he gigged around alot when he was younger. A beautiful guitar!
I feel very honored about this.

The pots was in pretty bad shape as they were crackling all the time, so I have ordered some CTS pots to replace them (and a pair of capacitors while I'm at it).
It also has a broken bridge piece he temporarily supported by putting layers of paper under it. But these are all easy fixes.
The main thing is that the guitar itself is in good structural condition. I really enjoy the tone and feel of it. At first it was impossible to play on my amps as the output jack was too loose. But after tightening the connection lugs I achieved a good consistant connection.

But I'm having trouble dating it. According to the dating charts on guilds website compared to my serial number (40258), that brings me to 1957.
But from what I've read, the Starfire line was introduced some time during the '60s. So that can't be right?
I've also heard that the serial numbers are unreliable in determining the year of manufacture on Guilds, so that might be why.

Here's a picture of it. I really love this guitar!
My grandfather also got a custom made pickguard bearing his name.

The final thing I'm going to buy for it is a white Gator hardcase and we're in business.

 

[Default]

Pretty sweet! I don't have the Bible in front of me, but that's aprox 1964-66, due to the 16 fret neck joint. That's a nice thing to get from Grandpa!

 

[Marshall Arts]

Yes, that sounds more realistic.

My grandfather passed 29 years ago when I was 6 months old. My uncle kept it in his basement until he decided last week he wanted me to carry it on and fix it.
I'm an electrical engineer by trade and an eager electronics enthusiast so it's natural I love working on electric guitars. I can't wait to get to work on this baby. It's really amazing, as semi hollows has never appealed to me tonally before. Until I played this one. Hell, it even plays well with heavy distortion (for the fun of it) without mudding out.

A great guitar for playing more clean. Yep, I'm a Guild fan too now.

 

[Jeff Haddad]

Beautiful guitar, nice to have that from your grandfather. You might be able to just clean the pots before you replace them.

 

[killdeer43]

WELCOME TO LTG! That's a beautiful Guild and a wonderful inheritance. You'll think of your grandfather every time you play it. :eagerness:

Joe

 

[Zelja]

Sorry to hear about ypur Grandpa's passing but what a lovely memento to have of him. A Default says, 64-66. The Serial No. is a little strange as they generally transitioned to a SN starting with E during this time, so maybe it's one of the earliest SFIVs? Hans is your best bet (Moust, wrote The Guilfd Guitar Book"). he is a member here & likely to chime in.

 

[walrus]

Welcome! Great guitar, great story - what a beautiful inheritance!

walrus

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG! Your Starfire IV with S/N 40258 was made in 1965. (See Hans' book page 46). You were reading the numbers wrong, in 1957 it has only four numbers starting with 4xxx, but your's is 5 numbers.
It is not one of the earliest, there were already Starfire IVs built in 1963 according to Hans book. I have never seen a 1963 one, but a few 1964 models.
You definitely should buy The Guild Guitar Book to see and read more about the history. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guild-Guita.../0634009664/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429456761
By the way here is an example of basically the same guitar (called Starfire V in that case), same pickups, just the version with bigsby: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riyD53NWgIc

Ralf

 

[Aristocrater]

Before changing out the pots and caps, take the guitar to a good repair shop. They should be able to spray contact cleaner and lubricant (a product that you can also buy at Radio Shack) which may clear up the problem. Make sure to get the "Cleaner and Lubricant". Turn the knobs fully in one direction, give them a squirt, turn them back and forth. Put them in the other direction and give them another squirt and turn them back and forth. There is an opening in the pot where the leads connect and the spray comes with a little red tube that inserts into the pot. Use a small flash light to find the opening. Don't try to spray thru the top of the pot as that doesn't work. If they can't be saved, then go ahead and change them out, but hold onto the old parts. Nice guitar! Let me know if you need assistance.

 

[Marshall Arts]

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

I guess I can safely say that I have a '65 then.

No, the pots are completely shot I'm afraid. I have lubricated noisy pots before in guitars and I thought about it first, but these are much worse.
They have a very rough throw. I can feel it when turning them.
So I wanted to replace them to get that oily smoothness back and do a more permanent repair.

Every original part will be held on to inside the case. I feel I'm on somewhat of a holy ground on this particular guitar from it's age and its history.

Maybe I should buy that book as I have become quite curious about Guilds the past week. I'm going to find a local dealer and try some more.

Thanks a bunch, guys!

 

[cc_mac]

That's a beautiful guitar with a wonderful story. I have a later 60s version of the same guitar and love it. I'd agree with Aristocrater about cleaning the pots first. They get like that and it's mostly from inactiviaty and it's very possible to get nasty pots cleaned. If you do decide to replace the pots then I'd advocate for pulling the entire harness out and building a new harness with pots/caps and reinstalling it. I'm pretty sure if you pull the pickups you'll see the harness is wired to lugs on the back of the pickups which is handy for this kind of work. You'll also need to pull the tailpiece as there's a piece of bus wire run from the pots that come out behind the tailpiece to ground the strings.

It's hard to tell from the picture but it appears that the bridge base is not stock and has been replaced by a 2 footed base. Some pics of that might be helpful in finding the right parts you need to bring it back to original. Good luck with this and keep us posted.

 

[Marshall Arts]

Here's a few new photos of it in the sun. The summer is on its way and I could not resist the urge to sit in the sun with a cold one and play it acoustically.

Here's a closeup of the bridge with the crack visible. I'm looking into replacing the whole assembly with something that will let me adjust intonation individually. Suggestions? (I care more about playability than originality)

Pillow marks on my hand after falling asleep after work.

 

[SFIV1967]

Very nice pictures again! So the bridge is not original, it looks like both the rosewood base and saddle were replaced at one time in it's life.

The original had a Hagström made bridge (made in Sweden). See picture:

+

Those Hagström bridges come up on ebay USA from time to time, I bought one there as well as some of my saddle pieces on my 1967 Strafire IV needed a replacement.

To get the correctly matching Rosewood base might be more difficult, but it is always worth to ask Hans Moust in the Netherlands: http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/contact.php
Hans might know a source for it.

Ralf

 

[cc_mac]

Sounds like you've got the wiring under control. Not sure what to make of that bridge. At a glance, it appears that it the top section is 180 degrees out.

As Ralf pointed out, the Hagstrom would be correct for that guitar and they do pop up on eBay and were used on guitars other than Guild. GFS produces a bridge saddle that is quite similar to the original Hagstrom and you can see it here. You could just toss the LP style mounting studs and use the rest of it on the base you have (if the holes line up)

Finding a base and fitting it could be a bit more of a challenge. Guilds often have a shallow neck angle/height resulting in a situation where the average 2 footed archtop bridge with TOM on top is simply too tall to adjust low enough for usable action. Guilds typically had thin full contact bases which are not overly common in the aftermarket. Here are some options that include saddles which if you want metal then you'd toss the top half. I have a rosewood saddle that I adapted for my 69 Starfire IV and love it.

It night become a situation where you have to mate a saddle to a base and then fit the base to the curve of the arch on the guitar. Here is a basic tutorial on doing it and it can and often is done without any fancy tools but that bridge fitting jig does look like a time saver.

 

[Marshall Arts]

Sorry for the late response. Thank you yet again for your answers.

Yes. The Hagstrom/GFS looks more right to me when looking at it.
Maybe I could fit one on the existing base. As I can clearly see the problem in finding a new base that matches the curves of the top without having to sand it.

But there is a crack on the right hand side of the base also (visible on the photo). A split.
But it looks like it can be glued while held together with the vise (protected with a cloth).
It's clear that the guitar fell on its bridge one time judging from the damages.

The Hagström and the GFS bridges looks great. Althought I couldn't find any on ebay. All I get is tune o matic styled bridges. I don't think one of those would look right.
But maybe they'll show up some time.
I compared the bridge studs on the Starfire with my LP custom. They're both 74mm, so that should make it easier to find a bridge to fit on the base if not a Hagstrom. So maybe I could stick with the current bridge base and just find a bridge to fit on it. As it fits the curve of the top perfectly. But if the Hagstrom of GFS bridges is 74mm it would fit. As long as I can adjust intonation individually.
Edit: They are 74mm I found out. So they are next on my search list.

I also noticed that the nut had become loose, but nothing a dab of wood glue can't fix.
By the way: Were these guitars made with bone nuts? Mine has.