Guild Sighting: Mary Halvorson

[Neal]

Depends on what you consider "acoustic", Tom.

If you mean a guitar that sounds good unplugged, guitars like the fat-bodied X-50 would rate, given that it is identical to the acoustic arch-top A-50 with the exception of the soap bar PU.

But the more slimline Guild hollow-bodied arch-tops? Certainly, the hollow cavity imparts a different sound to the electrified output, but do they sound good unplugged?

Neal

 

[houseisland]

"There is another important thing here that I forgot to add," he said treading ever so carefully. We can look at things from the other end of the telescope.

Although I like outside music, I get very tired of outside players who whinge, "Oh... I'm a genius. I'm a misunderstood artist, a serious artist. The world should bend over backwards to kiss my butt." If one plays outside the envelope, one has to live outside the envelope. These people need to shut up and do a whole lot of work to convince the world that their work has any merit at all. The world does not need to come to their door. I might be there at the door, but no one needs to follow me there.

If we go back to the concept of schemata as mental paradigms that we use to navigate and make sense of the universe - in a sense synthesizing a narrative structure of existence ..... Some theorists have suggested that schizophrenia might be the inability to synthesize a coherent narrative structure of life/experience.

So if we take music written by and for a small and esoteric speech community and force it down the throats of people who are not members of that community, say the general public, we are in essence forcing them to endure something akin, perhaps, to a psychotic or schizophrenic episode. They have nothing to use, no schemata, to synthesize any coherence from the music. If I want to kill a party, I just get out the Braxton records, eh? Or go Ken Kesey on the punch bowl.

So, Walrus.... sorry about the Terrie Ex. I hope you have recovered without recourse to meds.

 

[NYWolf]

If we go back to the concept of schemata as mental paradigms that we use to navigate and make sense of the universe - in a sense synthesizing a narrative structure of existence ..... Some theorists have suggested that schizophrenia might be the inability to synthesize a coherent narrative structure of life/experience.

Now, that's something we can finally agree on! Now, can we return to the subject of porn?... I mean dolphin porn... Sorry, I mean guitars, yes, Guilds. I mean either one is fine, porn or guitars- it gets my attention for a while.

 

[houseisland]

Now, that's something we can finally agree on! Now, can we return to the subject of porn?... I mean dolphin porn... Sorry, I mean guitars, yes, Guilds. I mean either one is fine, porn or guitars- it gets my attention for a while.

Nice Guild Mary is holding, isn't it?

BTW, you were very funny above, further above, like a page back or so. Not funny in any disrespectful sense of the word but funny as in LOL.

 

[NYWolf]

Nice Guild Mary is holding, isn't it?

BTW, you were very funny above, further above, like a page back or so. Not funny in any disrespectful sense of the word but funny as in LOL.

Thank you sir. Yes, very nice Guild. I had a gig yesterday with a great bass player who is really really into avant-garde jazz, and actually played with Mary in the past. He told me that she always mikes her Guild, as well as plugs it in an amp, so she gets purely acoustic sound out of it as well as her through pedals amp sound. I watched the video again, and noticed that too, indeed.

So AA Guild is basically an acoustic archtop then? Would it work like an purely acoustic then with no amp, like in a small combo with horns, for swing Freddie Green style, for example?

 

[houseisland]

So AA Guild is basically an acoustic archtop then? Would it work like an purely acoustic then with no amp, like in a small combo with horns, for swing Freddie Green style, for example?

I don't know about AA Guilds, but my general and possibly erroneous understanding is that carved solid top archtops were developed to compete with banjos in volume as harmonic/percussive rhythm instruments. They would be strung with incredibly heavy strings and set with quite high action in order to get the greatest volume possible out of them. Mostly what was played was heavy attack comping. It wasn't until the advent of pickups that the guitar really left the rhythm section, although this does not explain Django, does it? Guitars, even archtops, have small voices by comparison to brass and reeds. You might get away playing trad-jazz rhythm in such a combo, but you might also die as a soloist if you were with players who can't can't drop down and play quietly behind you. But what do I know? I am often wrong.

Edit: it is telling, perhaps, that I cannot find any such combo in performance on Youtube. Looking. Not finding.

Edit: Voice and bass, yes, but with Maccaferri style guitars, miked. No horns and drums, yet.



More Maccaferri with bass and accordion, miked again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Z3CyZ9KFQ

 

[NYWolf]

I don't know about AA Guilds, but my general and possibly erroneous understanding is that carved solid top archtops were developed to compete with banjos in volume as harmonic/percussive rhythm instruments. They would be strung with incredibly heavy strings and set with quite high action in order to get the greatest volume possible out of them. Mostly what was played was heavy attack comping. It wasn't until the advent of pickups that the guitar really left the rhythm section, although this does not explain Django, does it? Guitars, even archtops, have small voices by comparison to brass and reeds. You might get away playing trad-jazz rhythm in such a combo, but you might also die as a soloist if you were with players who can't can't drop down and play quietly behind you. But what do I know? I am often wrong.

Edit: it is telling, perhaps, that I cannot find any such combo in performance on Youtube. Looking. Not finding.

Edit: Voice and bass, yes, but with Maccaferri style guitars, miked. No horns and drums, yet.

nah, I think this time you actually got it right That's my experience too. The loudest acoustic I have is Maccaferri style Gypsy one. But it still needs amplification to compete with trumpet, tuba, accordion and drums. The type of gigs we play sometimes, we are like a mini marching band, and I have to plug in mini cube Roland strapped over my shoulder. It's ok, but I wish there was a guitar that wouldn't need that. I was seriously thinking about getting a tenor banjo lately, but those things are so damn heavy.

 

[houseisland]

nah, I think this time you actually got it right That's my experience too. The loudest acoustic I have is Maccaferri style Gypsy one. But it still needs amplification to compete with trumpet, tuba, accordion and drums. The type of gigs we play sometimes, we are like a mini marching band, and I have to plug in mini cube Roland strapped over my shoulder. It's ok, but I wish there was a guitar that wouldn't need that. I was seriously thinking about getting a tenor banjo lately, but those things are so damn heavy.

Some of the resonator guitars are really loud, but they can be really heavy, too. Then there is the guitar/banjo. Bruce Cockburn used to play one in the old days for busking in Paris. Harry Manx still plays one.

 

[guildman63]

So, to Neal and Woody..... although I know it's a distinct category of guitars, I always think of archtops as "acoustic" guitars. Am I mistaken? Or is it a gray area? I know they're electrified, but I consider them "acoustic". What d'ya think?

I suppose carved top vs laminated would matter. The term Archtop is very broad. It includes fully hollow, semi-hollow, carved, laminated, etc. I consider my GSR Starfire to be an archtop, but acoustically it's not in the same universe as my AA, nor should it be. I think your take on an archtop was accurate pre-1950's, but then big bands declined dramatically, and things got much more electrified. Just another perspective in the archtop debate.

 

[guildman63]

So AA Guild is basically an acoustic archtop then? Would it work like an purely acoustic then with no amp, like in a small combo with horns, for swing Freddie Green style, for example?

I have one of the new AP AA's. It competes very favorably with a traditional acoustic guitar in terms of volume, and can be used as such. I don't know about in a big band setting with horns. Part of what allowed Freddie Green to play unplugged with a big band was his technique, so I'm sure I'm not good enough to have an answer to that question. Perhaps someone else can chime in.

One interesting discovery I made, however, is that if I plug my AA into my Henriksen it sounds like a great electrified archtop. When I connect the Tweety to my Henriksen, which is used when playing an acoustic guitar, the AA sounds like a great acoustic guitar. Very cool!

 

[guildman63]

So, to Neal and Woody..... although I know it's a distinct category of guitars, I always think of archtops as "acoustic" guitars. Am I mistaken? Or is it a gray area? I know they're electrified, but I consider them "acoustic". What d'ya think?

I suppose carved top vs laminated would matter. The term Archtop is very broad. It includes fully hollow, semi-hollow, carved, laminated, etc. I consider my GSR Starfire to be an archtop, but acoustically it's not in the same universe as my AA, nor should it be. I think your take on an archtop was accurate pre-1950's, but then big bands declined dramatically, and things got much more electrified. Just another perspective in the archtop debate.

 

[mcflavin]

I respect her as an artist but I don't really "get" free jazz yet. Maybe someday I'll find things to love about it but for me "form" is a part of music. I like some sort of structure in which the creativity happens, so some notion of chords or harmony, or some attempt at melody. The limitations are as important as the creativity sometimes. ("How would you solo over *these* progressions? How many variations of this can you come up with? etc") I took one of my kids to hear William Parker and his septet last night (he is a giant among free jazz bass players) and there were moments that were really cool but for most of it I was thinking "I could seem really cool and sophisticated like the other people here if I looked like I was digging it but I'm struggling to find something to genuinely enjoy." My mind just isn't yet ready for free jazz, but as odd as it seems now, I hope someday I love it as much as I love other music!

 

[cc_mac]

I am glad this thread didn't (or hasn't yet) been shut down. It's been informative, emotive, and occasionally knee slapping funny. My last girlfriend often became agitated when I'd play some of John Coltrane's music from the early 60s Prestige Records period or Ornette Coleman. I find it just as pleasing and musical as listening to Sinatra, Wes Montgomery, Thelonious Monk, Milt Jackson, Kenny Burrell, etc - almost southing. I'd never set out to find music that was "avant guard " or "outside" but when I encounter things and they connect they become part of my inner playlist.

I'm thankful to have learned about Mary Halvorson here only if it's that fact that she plays an Artist Award that brought her to my attention. I found this clip where she puts the AA through it's paces with a very interesting (and pleasing to me) duo with a sax player. I'll be seeking out more of her work and hope to catch her live on the East coast at some point.

 

[mcflavin]

I won't give up on Mary, or any of the giants of free jazz. I suspect I'll get there someday, I'm just on the journey and haven't arrived yet.

 

[guildman63]

I won't give up on Mary, or any of the giants of free jazz. I suspect I'll get there someday, I'm just on the journey and haven't arrived yet.

Don't feel you have to make yourself like that music. I think it's great that people like Mary are out there doing their thing, but I just like harmony and melody too much, and can't see ever getting that free...with my music! :tears_of_joy: Besit, I love the harmonic structure that challenges me to be more precise with what I play and when I play it. There may be such structure in Mary's playing, but perhaps I just don't hear it or understand it

 

[killdeer43]

The clip with the sax doesn't work for me at all. The entire piece, which I listened to in its entirety, is more unsettling to my musical senses than anything. There's certainly talent there, but it's not my cup-of- whatever.

Joe

 

[bluesypicky]

I won't give up on Mary, or any of the giants of free jazz. I suspect I'll get there someday.

I heard that "one's freedom ends where one's freedom starts".
Guess it all depends on how "free" you wanna be.

Yeah I know. I'm deep like that.

 

[davismanLV]

@ Pascal, is that like, "My right to blow my saxophone ends where your ears begin."? I dunno, maybe if they both played the same piece of music at the same time ..... :saturn:

 

[bluesypicky]

@ Pascal, is that like, "My right to blow my saxophone ends where your ears begin."? I dunno, maybe if they both played the same piece of music at the same time ..... :saturn:

I will not divulge where I place my musical freedom limit, but if you ever infringe on it, then you are a freedom hating terrorist.

 

[davismanLV]

LOL!! And on that note, I'm off to work.... that's my "freedom" right now. :encouragement: