Guild 66j value?

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I have a terrific sounding and looking Guild 66j that I bought about 6 years ago from the personal collection of Jay Pilzer of New Hope Guitar Traders. I think it is all original. Sounds like a tweed Fender Deluxe to me. How can I determine the year it was made (speaker code if original) ? Also, how do I determine the value of the amp? It is very clean and original, sounds sweet, tremolo works perfectly and even has the original wooden footswitch for the tremolo.
 

capnjuan

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Hi bluzdoctor: If the speaker is original, you may be able date it using this link to EIA codes for pots and speakers. Each speaker mfr has a 3-digit code to identify its products; 220 for Jensen, 137 for CTS and so on. If the code is in 6-digit format, the 4th digit is the last digit in the year of manufacture; 0 for 1960, 1 for 1961. The last 2 digits are the week of the year of manufacture; 02 for second week, 21 for 21st week. It's my understanding that most of the 66Js were sold with Jensen speakers ... before Guild switched to CTS. I'd expect to see a teal (green) frame and either a P12R or a C12R. These codes are painted on the rim of Jensen and other speakers or on the bellcovers or magnets on other makes like CTS.

The pots carry an EIA ID code stamped in their rims and since they have a longer useful life, their dates are considered more reliable in dating amps. This link will take you to a page where you can key in your pot codes and the page will return the manufacturer and the date the part was made; this is a 'not-sooner-than' date but, together with the if-original speaker's code, will give you a pretty good idea when it was made.

Other than put it up on eBay, I'm not sure there is a way to determine the value of the amp. If your question was: 'what do these usually go for?', I'd say they tend to sell for not less than $400 or more than $550.

Good luck with your amp. CJ
 
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Thanks, that is a useful link. This weekend I will check the codes on the speaker (a p12r "bluebell" Jensen) and pots. Does anyone know who made these amps. Some have said Ampeg, but this doesn't have an "accordian" input nor does it sound as clean as most Ampegs i have heard (although I played an old late 50s early 60s Jet that was fantastic with a creamy overdrive perfect for blues....I should have bought it).

Thanks again,

Joel
 

capnjuan

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Hi Joel: do you have either the codes or a pic of your speaker? Does it look like this one?

3814297636_cbab90876d.jpg


The Hopkins and Moore history of Ampeg doesn't mention Ampeg making amps for anyone other than themselves. It does say that Ampeg, because of its management principles, was chronically back-ordered ... that it couldn't keep up with demand for its own products. Never say never but companies who can't keep up with demand for their own products don't normally make similar products for less money for someone else. I've read the Ampeg-Guild weblore and I wonder if it's more a function of the noticeable similarities between both the Guild 66J and 98RT and Ampeg's Jet and early Reverberockets respectively. The 98RT and the RR are strikingly similar.

I've listened to a 66J at my house that had been refurbished by one member and then sold to another. It wasn't turned up past 5/6 but there wasn't a hint of distortion or break up in the tone. Two of the three Ampeg Jet versions used 7591s and not 6V6s like the 66J so the 'creamy overdrive' you attribute to the Jet may have been a function of the 7591s.
 

bunuel

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I've had/have several early '60s ampegs, as well as a coupla Guild 66j. It's indisputable that Ampeg made most of the major components for the 66j--they're dead ringers in many respects, running the gamut from the chassis material to the silk screening on the control panel to many other major and minor components, including cabinet wood & design. But you're right, the Guild 66J is far more tweedlike than it is like an ampeg of similar vintage. for my money the 66J is an even more aggro circuit than the tweeds.

Every 66J I've ever had or heard or has been a raunch-inna-box, just full of beautifully ragged overdrive, they sound like they are on the verge of exploding (in a good way!), including the first one I heard decades ago that sent me on my quest to track down a couple. (It was played by an ol' blues dude that called it his 'secret weapon'). I occasionally hear of folks that say otherwise, but i'd guess that the ones they'd heard had been improperly modded--the original circuit is pure rockin rage.

The most reliable word among aficionados seems to be that Ampeg (which was just down the street from the Guild Hoboken plant at the time) jobbed out all the basic components, but the design & assembly was Guild's (& based on fenders).

Regardless, the 66J is stellar amp--let me know if/when you decide to sell it!
 

capnjuan

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bunuel said:
... It's indisputable that Ampeg made most of the major components for the 66j--they're dead ringers in many respects, running the gamut from the chassis material to the silk screening on the control panel to many other major and minor components ... , including cabinet wood & design.
Hi bunuel; it is disputable whether it's indisputable that Ampeg made most/all of the components for the 66j. Neither the Hopkins and Moore history of Ampeg nor the Guild Guitar Book mention Ampeg supplying parts / amps to Guild. Other than physical and electronic similarity and chat-room posts, do you have some information that says so?

Because .......

ES5-2.jpg



ES335-2.jpg



ES125tcd-2.jpg



ES125-2.jpg



... if physical similarity establishes source, then according to you Gibson must have made all the Guild models pictured above.

There would have been nothing to prevent Guild from, having bought an Ampeg at a local music store, either duping it themselves or parting out the chassis, cabinet, and electronics to suppliers to replicate. I've read in a number of places on this BB and elsewhere on the web that Susie is a ho ... but the fact that people say so or even that she might look like a ho doesn't prove she's a ho.

Based on my read of Hopkins/Moore, I'd be surprised to find out that Ampeg was the source of some Guild amps but since there's nothing definitive out there and the presence of another theory that explains the same set of facts, then believing that Ampeg made the amps is just a matter of choosing the theory that is the least unflattering to Guild.
 

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From what I've heard, not google mapped, the Guild and Ampeg factories were close to each other, hence might have traded workers from time to time. It is a puzzle where early Guild amps were made. When you see the gut shots on ebay, the quality and workmanship of the different models is all over the board- some used Univox-like Japanese made circuitboards, some are Ampeg-like, and some are just weird. There was one (44J?) up on ebay lately where the build quality was stunningly horrible.
The 66J's all look like quality, whether they were built by Ampeg, Sano, or by Guild itself. I would suspect that Ampeg and Guild used the same suppliers, at least.
 

capnjuan

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Default said:
... There was one (44J?) up on ebay lately where the build quality was stunningly horrible ... I would suspect that Ampeg and Guild used the same suppliers, at least.
Are you thinking of this 40T?

Ampeg to fabricator X: " ... make it this way..."
Guild to fabricator X: "... I'll have what he's having ..." :wink:
 

capnjuan

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Default said:
Exactly! the wiring on that one is just amazing and not in a good way.
Yes ... anti-amazing. There isn't anything that I can think of in the Ampeg line that it resembles ... maybe more like one of those boutique Stewarts?
 

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Are you sure that you didn't mean bouquet?

"cause the wiring job on the Stewart stinks. :wink:
 

capnjuan

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Default said:
Are you sure that you didn't mean bouquet? "cause the wiring job on the Stewart stinks. :wink:
I guess I figured we could point to Stewart's low commercial output ... like Fuchs ... divided by 13 ... and the others as evidence of Stewart's ... well ... having at least something in common with high-grade, boutique amps. I get the feeling you're suggesting that that's where the comparison ends?
 

capnjuan

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coastie99 said:
Default said:
Hey, even Canal-Tone Amplification does a better job than Stewart. :roll:
I'd buy a Carnal-Tone amplifier in a heartbeat !! Speaking of which, has anybody got a photo. of this Susie chick ??
You may not have gotten a copy of JuanzAmpz's flyer featuring the new Canal-Tone line of gear ... gear whose performance justified their being tossed (heaved?) into the brackish water canal in the back (with a line attached). Since leaving the gear in the canal is considered polluting, we at JuanzAmpz retrieve the pieces and offer them at attractive below-market prices. All Canal-Tone gear has indescribable tone.

Susie .... the last time she was interviewed, she gave her last name as Queue ...

drag-queen-folsom-street-2.jpg
 

capnjuan

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Susie runs on ac/dc, I see! <wince>
Yes; the batteries are kept in that pouch in front.
 

bunuel

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I don't really understand what the cap'n's photos of guitars are supposed to mean with respect to the issue at hand (after all this is about a specific amp--the guild 66-J), but perhaps it is way to fill up an empty day.

It is certainly evidence of absolutely nothing.

If one spends a minuscule amount of time looking at the 66-J and ampeg's of similar vintage, it is indisputable that the guild has many parts jobbed out by ampeg, including the control panel & cabinet (both made in-house at ampeg).

Yep, the hopkins book (which I have autographed copy of) doesn't mention this, but it also doesn't provide the complete tube lineup of every 60s ampeg & those all surely exist. Hopkins et al. did a great job on the 40+yrs of ampeg history, but if you talk to them as I have many times, they'll be straightforward that their work is on the ampeg line is not comprehensively exhaustive.

So it's sorta silly to posit that the lack of mention in that book of jobbing by ampeg for guild constitutes any sort of evidence of anything.

I'll post some pics of 66-J and the ampeg cognates when I have time, which is ltd: I've got a life, a band & a family, most certainly not in that order.
 

capnjuan

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bunuel said:
I don't really understand what the cap'n's photos of guitars are supposed to mean with respect to the issue at hand (after all this is about a specific amp--the guild 66-J)
Hi bunuel: the purpose of the photos was/is to show that physical similarity isn't sufficient to establish a fact. Guild guitars physically resemble Gibson guitars. Guild amps physically resemble Ampeg amps. Because Guild guitars resemble Gibson guitars, then according to you Gibson must have made Guild guitars.
bunuel said:
... but perhaps it is way to fill up an empty day.
Up yours.
bunuel said:
It is certainly evidence of absolutely nothing.
It is evidence that anyone arguing that Ampeg made Guild amps based solely on physical similarity doesn't have an argument.
bunuel said:
If one spends a minuscule amount of time looking at the 66-J and ampeg's of similar vintage, it is indisputable that the guild has many parts jobbed out by ampeg, including the control panel & cabinet (both made in-house at ampeg).
Other than observation, got anything else? I'm not saying that Guild didn't use the same sources as Ampegs, I'm saying that other than physical and electronic similarity, there's no basis to believe that Ampeg made Guild's amps.
bunuel said:
Yep, the hopkins book (which I have autographed copy of) doesn't mention this, but it also doesn't provide the complete tube lineup of every 60s ampeg & those all surely exist. Hopkins et al. did a great job on the 40+yrs of ampeg history, but if you talk to them as I have many times, they'll be straightforward that their work is on the ampeg line is not comprehensively exhaustive.
If the authors are such good friends of yours, why don't you ask them instead of making assumptions based on similarity.
bunuel said:
I'll post some pics of 66-J and the ampeg cognates when I have time ...
Yes; of course, just say whatever comes to mind and follow it up when you get the time.
 
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