Guild 12 string action vs. Taylor 12 string action

[spiderman]

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a used Taylor 355 at a local music shop and was floored at how easy it was to play. Was not terribly pleased with the tone seemed bit thin, intended to go back a few days later when I had more time to give it a workout, but it had been sold, Anyone have any comments on the action of Guild 12 strings vs. Taylor 12 strings. I remember the last time I tried a 12 string (probably a Guild) in 1964, and liked the sound, but the action was stiff to say the least. That Taylor 355 had better low action than most 6 strings. If I desired a Guild I would have to buy t it remotely as the odds of one showing up here to play in person are slim.
Appreciate any thoughts


Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired)
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[Taylor Martin Guild]

Any guitar can have a easy to play action, as long as the guitar is structurally sound.
Taylor guitars have a very different neck than Guild necks.
Taylor necks are smaller and thinner than most Guild necks.
This accounts for what some perceive as an easy action.

There are some Guild 12 guitars that have smaller necks than others.
I don't know which 12 strings have the smaller necks though.
I have just read about them.

I have said many times that I would love a 12 string guitar that had a Guild body with a Taylor neck.

 

[evenkeel]

Any guitar can have a easy to play action, as long as the guitar is structurally sound. Taylor guitars have a very different neck than Guild necks. Taylor necks are smaller and thinner than most Guild necks. This accounts for what some perceive as an easy action.

Yeep. Another point to consider is a bit higher action will result in better volume and tone. Depends on a variety of other factors of course.

 

[bluesypicky]

Any guitar can have a easy to play action, as long as the guitar is structurally sound. Taylor guitars have a very different neck than Guild necks. Taylor necks are smaller and thinner than most Guild necks. This accounts for what some perceive as an easy action.

Yeep. Another point to consider is a bit higher action will result in better volume and tone. Depends on a variety of other factors of course.

On the topic of action, I used to think that there couldn't be such thing as too low an action, but I've learned that there is indeed.
I once played a guitar that thanks to a perfect neck alignement and angle was set so low that I was actually missing the feel of the strings..... a little bit like working on motor with gloves on (mechanincs out there will know what I mean :wink: )

 

[chazmo]

Any guitar can have a easy to play action, as long as the guitar is structurally sound.
Taylor guitars have a very different neck than Guild necks.
Taylor necks are smaller and thinner than most Guild necks.
This accounts for what some perceive as an easy action.

There are some Guild 12 guitars that have smaller necks than others.
I don't know which 12 strings have the smaller necks though.
I have just read about them.

I have said many times that I would love a 12 string guitar that had a Guild body with a Taylor neck.

Well said.

Spidey, any Guild can be made to play with comfortable, low action. It's just a question of finding the right luthier or guitar tech.

I have an '80s Taylor 12 which plays like butter now. It was unplayable when I got it though because it needed some significant lutherie, including a neck reset. Fortunately, a neck reset, even on an older Taylor, is a relatively easy job because the necks are bolt-ons. That is not the case with any of the Traditional Guild models.

The '80s Taylor has a much slimmer neck than my Guilds. It's definitely a matter of taste.

 

[spiderman]

As always a there is a hidden agenda. I did not mention I have severe tendinitis, so playability is a big issue. I don't finger pick any more. Another example when I was younger I tended to play an awful lot in C as it suited my voice uncapoed, now I can't play a G7 chord, although can still do C and F. Barreing is a real pain, and I can hit an F#m about half the time. Thus playability is a big issue, especially on a 12 string. Local Guild registered luthier charges $450 for a neck reset on a Guild 6 string, and as he says and has been confirmed in the forum many times, Guilds are a bear to work with (his quote) because of rock solid neck attachment. Obviously this has something to do with the Guild tone, although the body is more significant, so there is no free lunch.
I was trying to remember who said they wanted a Taylor neck on a Guild body, thanks TaylorMartinGuild.
Maybe I can try an electric, although since I don't have an amp no sound would issue, might be a blessing in disguise. :roll: I could then reach my ultimate goal and go for air guitar.

Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired)
Alvarez AC60S
Eastman AC320ce BOOKMATCHING BOOKMATCHING WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOOKMATCHING!
http://www.massstreetmusic.com/store/sh ... id-Cutaway
GAD-JF30E(blonde)

 

[6L6]

I think Bob Taylor made his original mark with easy-to-play 12 strings. And, I must say, just about every Taylor 12 I've played has had very low action and been a breeze to play. However, they've all been THIN in tone compared to Guild 12's and the Martin D-12-20.

I'm in total agreement with statements above that any Guild 12 can be made to play with low action while retaining it's famous tone. Just get a luthier who knows how to do the setup. In San Francisco to "go-to" guy is Gary Brawer at Gary Brawer Stringed Instrument Repair. He's been my techie since 1986 and he's the best (Satriani and Vai agree with this).

6

'06 F-412

 

[evenkeel]

As always a there is a hidden agenda. I did not mention I have severe tendinitis, so playability is a big issue.

You could also consider tuning the 12'er down a 1/2 or full step. I just sold a Martin 12 (to partially find the D60) and kept it tuned down a step. Not only made it a bit easier to play, but also improved the sound.

 

[chazmo]

As always a there is a hidden agenda. I did not mention I have severe tendinitis, so playability is a big issue. I don't finger pick any more. Another example when I was younger I tended to play an awful lot in C as it suited my voice uncapoed, now I can't play a G7 chord, although can still do C and F. Barreing is a real pain, and I can hit an F#m about half the time. Thus playability is a big issue, especially on a 12 string. Local Guild registered luthier charges $450 for a neck reset on a Guild 6 string, and as he says and has been confirmed in the forum many times, Guilds are a bear to work with (his quote) because of rock solid neck attachment. Obviously this has something to do with the Guild tone, although the body is more significant, so there is no free lunch.
I was trying to remember who said they wanted a Taylor neck on a Guild body, thanks TaylorMartinGuild.
Maybe I can try an electric, although since I don't have an amp no sound would issue, might be a blessing in disguise. :roll: I could then reach my ultimate goal and go for air guitar.

Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired)
Alvarez AC60S
Eastman AC320ce BOOKMATCHING BOOKMATCHING WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOOKMATCHING!
http://www.massstreetmusic.com/store/sh ... id-Cutaway
GAD-JF30E(blonde)

The thinner neck on older Taylors (or custom ordered, modern "slim-carve" Taylors) might be appealing for you, Spidey.

But, again, to be clear, good action should be achievable on any Guild vs. Taylor; it's just a question of which neck profile feels more comfortable to you with the tendonitis. Another factor might be overall weight of the guitar. Some Guilds are heavier than others.

A Taylor neck on a Guild is not actually possilbe (well, unless you rebuild the body with Taylor's equipment). But, if you do like the Taylor neck, try a Taylor 655 (maple body) and an 855 (rosewood) before you give up on Taylor. I don't agree with the others about the "thin" comment. Taylor makes a magnificent 12 string. It's just not a Guild.

 

[12 string]

Early Guild 12ers had a neck width at the nut of 2" I believe. During most if not all of the Westerly period it was 1 13/16" (which suits me best) and it is my understanding that they have since changed to 1 7/8". Taylor 12ers are also 1 7/8" at the nut. I would suggest that you try to find each width to try out, and even if you are comparing width on 6 stringers you can tell which fits your hand better. The ideal neck for me would combine the Guild width and the Taylor slimness. Though they may be different, for my fingerstyle playing the overall level of playability is pretty much the same. A well made and maintained guitar can have have the action set to whatever preference you may have. Guilds are definitely louder, but louder isn't necessarily better unless your particular style demands it. You may like the sound of a higher series Taylor a little better than a 355, but a Guild may be better for strumming.

Good luck,

' Strang

 

[Scratch]

I had a couple of Taylor 355 12ers; one a standard jumbo, the other a cutaway with electronics. Wonderful necks as stated, but very tinny sounding. No bottom end in either. Odd thing is I got so accustomed to the Guild necks, I found the Taylors difficult to play.

 

[Brad Little]

I've only played a few Taylors of any kind and have never been particularly impressed by their sound. Some of them did have nice action. However, the action on my F-212 is as good as any of them if not better and it's never had a neck reset. It has been generally well maintained and setup every couple of years by a good luthier-and for much of it's life has had much heavier strings than most would use (with a wound octave 'A') and kept at concert pitch.
There's also the option of silk and steel strings for someone who has trouble fretting a 12. Different sound for sure, but often more playable for many people.
Brad

 

[12stringer]

As far as action and Tinnyness is concerned I can relate one story. I had a seagul entourage 6 string dreadnought guitar which had a very solid sound to it...I took it in to a guitar shop just to have the nut slots filed down a bit to make it a bit easier to play cowboy chords with. Well as soon as the nut slots were lowered...the tone went tinny or thin...I wasn't very happy with that so I had the guy doing the work put a shim under the nut and refile the slots (not so low this time) and the tone was beefed up again. I was suprised to find that nut slot filing could dramatically affect tone on this guitar.

I own a 1977 Takamine F395S jumbo 12 string which has a thin neck and a big sound...if you can find one it might be the ticket for your chording issue. They were copies of the Guild F512 and they also made a maple version...late 1970's and early 1980's. After all these years the guitar has opened up beautifully and the neck is still straight and the saddle high.
Best of luck. :wink:

 

[dreadnut]

the 412 and 512 have a wider neck which I found uncomfortable after a while. Not only is it wider because of being a 12 string, but there are ornamental inlay stripes all the way down the fretboard on both sides, appears to me that makes 'em even wider. I have short fingers and found I couldn't play my 512 for very long before my hand was sore, especially when playing a lot of barre chords

The action, however, was superb! And the sound was pure Guild

 

[spiderman]

Thanks to all who responded. I'll have to check into the Westerlys with the thinner neck, although the odds of finding any Guild locally are slim to none, do see a Gibson 6 once in a while, but the area is overwhelmingly dominated by Martins and Taylors among the higher end big name manufacturers. My GAD-JF30E is 1 11/16" and is more comfortable to me than the Eastman which has 1 3/4", but the neck profile is also different so it is difficult to do a serious comparison, other than subjective. On the other hand I guess that is all that counts really.
I don't think the Taylor sounded tinny, which is a tone I associate with cheap guitars, just thin and not as full as a Guild. This is also subjective obviously.


Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired)
Alvarez AC60S
Eastman AC320ce BOOKMATCHING BOOKMATCHING WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOOKMATCHING!
http://www.massstreetmusic.com/store/sh ... id-Cutaway
GAD-JF30E(blonde)