Got my NS X175!!

[cc_mac]

Ralph - thank you for posting the image of the S-100 with mini hums.

matsickma - Congratulations on the new X-175.

I was thinking more about the wax potting of the mini hums on my Starfire mentioned above. The end result was a much more usable guitar and even 20 years after the wax potting I am very satisfied which how the guitar sounds.

 

[Jeff Haddad]

Congrats on the new X175 M! How would you (or Walter) describe the neck shape on the NS guitars you have?

 

[Walter Broes]

Congrats on the new X175 M! How would you (or Walter) describe the neck shape on the NS guitars you have?

It feels a lot like my early 60's X175's - round-ish, and medium big, certainly not a big neck, but not skinny. I like it a lot.

 

[Synchro]

If a tune-a-matic is set up well (matches your fretboard arch), the playability is the same as the Tru-Arc. The Tru-Arc sounds a little punchier and more even, and has a hair more sustain.

Unless you're trying really bad hardware, the key thing is setup. A properly cut nut, same with the bridge, and well dressed frets on a straight neck, and you're golden, the type of hardware is secondary and not as big a deal.

I would agree 100%. There are adjustable bridges of varying quality and judging by bargain basement hardware is not the best idea, IMHO. I use solid bridges pretty much exclusively but I've had adjustable bridge guitars in the past that were just fine.

Trying to find magic by replacing the nut makes no sense to me at all. The nut can only effect timbre on open string notes. The tiny amount of added mass gained by adding a brass nut doesn't strike me as being particularly significant. There have been a couple of threads over at Gretsch-Talk written by a fellow that spent $39 (Aus) on a pre slotted bone nut and came away disappointed. Frankly, I think that Delrin is as good of a nut material as exists. It's self lubricating, lasts a short eternity and is tough as nails.

 

[Synchro]

Thanks for sharing your process on "de-golding." That may come in to play for me at some point.

You are right about the nickel finish Bigsby. The whole look of the guitar is very striking and understated at the same time. Although I've still not had a chance to see one in person the finish in all the pictures I've seen (yours included) is captivating. Your description of the overall fit and finish as well as the sound makes it even ore attractive. I look forward to seeing/hearing some video of it in action.

I have two Gretsches that have gold pickups and machine heads and a polished aluminum Bigsby. They are pretty cool looking, I spite of the fact that the color differs. This is the way factory 6120s came from 1962 onward.

 

[Walter Broes]

Ok, over a month in.

I'm still loving the guitar. Have rehearsed with it a bunch, played at home a bunch too. Haven't been on stage with it...well...because I have my old ones for that.

One thing : I'm going to have the pickups redone. I'm calling my buddy who winds pickups tomorrow (had been planning on it for longer, but have been slow on the execution..) and asking him to rewind them, and if he says it might be worth it, put in different magnets.

There's an upper midrange thing about the pickups that is a little ugly, and after a while gets to be really annoying. As I said in my initial comments, the pickups are a little hotter than the originals I'm used to, and to my ears, that pushes them a little more towards that Gibson P90 midrange "snarl" thing. There's a honk to them I'm not crazy about, they push my amp harder than my old ones, and there's a little less treble and twang.

The guitar on the whole lacks a little sweetness compared to what I'm used to, but it would be entirely unreasonable to expect a brand new "made to a budget" korean copy of a guitar to sound as sweet and round as a 50+ year old guitar, I think.

I'm having the pickups rewound to 5K neck and 6K bridge, and maybe I'll have the magnets degaussed a little. (they're now both around 7K) I think that should do the trick, or at least get me a little closer to what I want.

The guitar is great though. I had a repair guy friend go over it with a fine-tooth comb with orders to be anal about the frets and nut, and now, after lowering the nut some, and a fret manicure, with the same action and strings as my oldies, it actually plays almost too easy. Neck is set up dead straight, no fretting out, no weird buzzes or rattles.

I love the neck profile, I still think the tuners are really nice, and so far it seems like it's a very stable guitar - I shlep it around in a gig bag (that's one of the main things I got it for - old ones don't go out of the house if they're not in a case) and it stays in tune like a champ.

Oh, and when I put the pickups back in, I'll probably flip the wiring harness "one turn" so the controls end up in the spot where they are on the Hoboken guitars - I'm always grabbing the wrong knob.

My niggles with the pickups aside, I'd still totally recommend this guitar - as long as you don't expect it to be anything it couldn't possibly be, it's really great, especially for the price. As close to a Hoboken 175 as you're gonna get for half of what a well-played oldie that probably needs some work would cost on a good day.

Watch this space for updates.

 

[Zelja]

Hey Walter. I have a NS Aristocrat & agree the pickups are pretty hot. They're pretty loud compared to other pickups I have got - including Guild HB-1s & TV Jones Classic Plus & Powertrons, perceived loudness no doubt helped by the fact that they are quite bright too.

To me the inductance of a pickup is a better measure of a pickup than the DC resistance. The inductance is basically a function of the number of turns of wire and the magent strength but is also affected by the baseplate, coil geometry, metal cover etc.

When measured in a guitar (in circuit with pots, caps etc) they seem to read a little lower than the actual pickup by itself. E.g. most of my HB-1s measure 3.5/3.6 Henry in the guitar & about 4.0 H out. My TVJ Classic Plus measure 2.9H in the guitar & are 3.7H out, the Powertron values are 4.3/5.9H.

So anyway, these NS pickups measure at about 5.0H in the guitar, so actually they are probably more than 6 H. In comparison the Franz pickups in my '63 CE100D measure at 3.0 H (Neck) and 3.1 H (Bridge). Their DC resistance is 5.38k & 5.56 respectively. Interestingly the Franz in my '55 X50 measure at 4.9H and has a DC resistance of 6.76K - very similar to the NS re-issues.

I wonder if there is any consistency with earlier Franz pickups being hotter like in the small sample size I have? 6.0 plus Henry is pretty hot. From what I understand P90s are in the 5 to 6 H range, low output PAFs are about 5, strat pickups are from about to 2 to 3 Henry, a classic Filtertron is 2.5 H or so etc.

So yeah, these are hot pickups & taking some turns off & deguassing the magnets would both drop the inductance value.

 

[Synchro]

Hey Walter. I have a NS Aristocrat & agree the pickups are pretty hot. They're pretty loud compared to other pickups I have got - including Guild HB-1s & TV Jones Classic Plus & Powertrons, perceived loudness no doubt helped by the fact that they are quite bright too.

To me the inductance of a pickup is a better measure of a pickup than the DC resistance. The inductance is basically a function of the number of turns of wire and the magent strength but is also affected by the baseplate, coil geometry, metal cover etc.

When measured in a guitar (in circuit with pots, caps etc) they seem to read a little lower than the actual pickup by itself. E.g. most of my HB-1s measure 3.5/3.6 Henry in the guitar & about 4.0 H out. My TVJ Classic Plus measure 2.9H in the guitar & are 3.7H out, the Powertron values are 4.3/5.9H.

So anyway, these NS pickups measure at about 5.0H in the guitar, so actually they are probably more than 6 H. In comparison the Franz pickups in my '63 CE100D measure at 3.0 H (Neck) and 3.1 H (Bridge). Their DC resistance is 5.38k & 5.56 respectively. Interestingly the Franz in my '55 X50 measure at 4.9H and has a DC resistance of 6.76K - very similar to the NS re-issues.

I wonder if there is any consistency with earlier Franz pickups being hotter like in the small sample size I have? 6.0 plus Henry is pretty hot. From what I understand P90s are in the 5 to 6 H range, low output PAFs are about 5, strat pickups are from about to 2 to 3 Henry, a classic Filtertron is 2.5 H or so etc.

So yeah, these are hot pickups & taking some turns off & deguassing the magnets would both drop the inductance value.

Now that's what I call an informative post. I don't have any experience with vintage Fransch pickups so there's no baseline for comparison, but the reissue pickups struck me as being a bit shrill.

 

[Walter Broes]

Zelja, I've heard that the earlier Franz pickups are supposedly hotter, and more similar to a Gibson P90. I have no proof of this, or experience with them though. All the Franz pickups I have and have had are from the 59 to 63 timeframe, and some of them were about 5K, others 6K. I have no idea how you even measure inductance, so I can't tell you about that.

Synchro, if you think the reissue Franz pickups are "shrill" sounding, I wouldn't bother with older ones!

 

[Synchro]

Synchro, if you think the reissue Franz pickups are "shrill" sounding, I wouldn't bother with older ones!

I don't mean it in any disparaging fashion, but the only way I could get a decent sound out of them was to turn the tone control down considerably. That's unusual, because I rarely even use a tone control on any guitar.

 

[Walter Broes]

That's a little suprising to me - because (and I've just come home from another three hour rehearsal with the NS guitar) I miss some true treble with those same pickups. Generally speaking, they are bright-ish pickups, but that upper midrange "honk" thing is what really jumps out at me with these. All in what you're used to, I guess.

 

[Synchro]

That's a little suprising to me - because (and I've just come home from another three hour rehearsal with the NS guitar) I miss some true treble with those same pickups. Generally speaking, they are bright-ish pickups, but that upper midrange "honk" thing is what really jumps out at me with these. All in what you're used to, I guess.

I played them in an M-75 Aristocrat, perhaps that wasn't the best platform to show the pickup to its greatest advantage. It wasn't unbearable, but it was hard to find a sound I could live with. FWIW, I tend to like TV Classics, although I don't happen to own any at the moment, the Supertron/Classic+ setup on my Gent' and I love the Anti-Hums on my Starfire III. If I had to pick one pickup for life it would be those mini Anti-Hums. If I had to pick one Gretsch pickup for life it would be a Supertron. The clarity of Supertrons really speaks to me.

 

[Walter Broes]

Well, there you have it - I haven't played a double coil pickup of any kind that I really love for what I do (although I can appreciate the sounds other folks get out of them!), I have way too many guitars, and all of them have single coil pickups.

 

[dhdfoster]

I definitely hear the upper-mid honk in the reissues, as well. In fact, it's still there even after having them rewound down a bit.

 

[Walter Broes]

I definitely hear the upper-mid honk in the reissues, as well. In fact, it's still there even after having them rewound down a bit.

Damn. as much as before?

 

[Synchro]

Well, there you have it - I haven't played a double coil pickup of any kind that I really love for what I do (although I can appreciate the sounds other folks get out of them!), I have way too many guitars, and all of them have single coil pickups.

I guess that's why they have different designs available. I remember hearing that Chet didn't like Dynasonics but he readily admitted that Duane Eddy could get a good sound from them. When I played in a quartet I used a Jet with Dynas as my main axe but now, in a trio, I like the fuller sound of Filters. But I readily admit to having unusual tastes. I actually like the ceramic Filtertron RIs better than the Alnco ones.

 

[dhdfoster]

Damn. as much as before?

No, it's lessened, but it's there. I think you'll notice much more of a difference than I did, as you're going even lower.

 

[Walter Broes]

Well, I just heard my guy's leaving for a vacation trip on saturday, so it'll have to wait awhile. But yes, it looks like I'm definitely going to ask for 5 and 6K, degauss the magnets, and the whole nine -scatterwound, not too tidy" yards.

That honky midrange thing is really the only thing that bothers me about the guitar - today I noticed I was even getting some "quacky" almost "two strat pickups" or filtertron thing out of the lead pickup, which is downright weird for having just the one coil. And I might move that lead pickup back a little too if the pickup redo doesn't get me what I want - I'm missing some of that agressive trebly thing on the lead and middle switch positions, it doesn't get "ugly in a great way" as much as I'm used to.

 

[Zelja]

I don't mean it in any disparaging fashion, but the only way I could get a decent sound out of them was to turn the tone control down considerably. That's unusual, because I rarely even use a tone control on any guitar.

I think you really have to adjust the amp controls going from one type of pickup to another, especially when changing from humbuckers to single coils. The NS Franz's are bright but can be tamed somewhat.

Zelja, I've heard that the earlier Franz pickups are supposedly hotter, and more similar to a Gibson P90. I have no proof of this, or experience with them though. All the Franz pickups I have and have had are from the 59 to 63 timeframe, and some of them were about 5K, others 6K. I have no idea how you even measure inductance, so I can't tell you about that.

Yeah, I have heard some anecdotal evidence about how Franz pickups "are like P90s but hotter" which came as a surprise when I got my CE100D as they are definately not hotter than even the most vintage, low output P90. Perhaps those guys were refferring to earlier Franz pickups? The 55 pickup in my X50 is definitely hotter than the 63 pickups but it's fair way from the strings so you don't really hear it.

Inductance is measured with a multi-meter with an inductance setting. I made sure when I bought a new meter a few years back that it had that function. Very useful & and an eye opener at times.

A question, are all the NS Franz original & reissues the same under the cover - i.e. would an NS Aristocrat pickup be able to fit under the dog ear cover of a vintage CE100D or an NS X-175?

 

[Walter Broes]

A question, are all the NS Franz original & reissues the same under the cover - i.e. would an NS Aristocrat pickup be able to fit under the dog ear cover of a vintage CE100D or an NS X-175?

Unlike the originals, the baseplates on the reissue Franz pickups are the same for the dogear and soapbar covers.

I haven't had the pickups out of the NS 175 yet, but I have a set of reissue soapbar Franzes.

The neck pickup is the same pole spacing as an original late 50's/early 60's Franz pickup, and fits in a vintage dogear cover. (I tried this, it fit). The lead pickup in the reissue soapbar set has wider pole spacing.