General question. When your guitar was born.....

davismanLV

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
19,361
Reaction score
12,175
Location
U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
Guild Total
2
I have basic information on my two Guilds. Date stamps on the neck block. Year is easy. Washburn from 1995 and who cares. Taylor i have month and year. Breedlove i have month a day and year. My question is this, when someone gets a year of birth of their guitar why would they want to know the month? Or is it that important to know the month? Or day? I know these are like children but it's not like we have birthday parties for them (DO WE??) or anything. So how critical is it to you to know the month and day that your guitar was completed and WHY? Honest question, answer below please...... o_O
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
23,067
Reaction score
18,714
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
I actually just went through this! Best I could do on my own is to make some assumptions based on the pot codes, but I think I have it down to a three-month span. It doesn't *really* matter, but it was a fun exercise.
 

mushroom

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
728
Reaction score
814
Hello. In general I’m not fussed with anything below the year but recently Hans chipped in with a date (21 May 1962) for the T100-D I have which sort of made it special. Maybe because the guitar was new to me?

I celebrated on its behalf by having a cupcake and a pint of stout.
 

bobouz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
1,869
With some brands & models (including Guild), spec changes have taken place in mid year. Some folks like pinning down exactly when those changes took place.
 

beecee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
3,583
Reaction score
2,430
I find month/year interesting but not important.

Serial numbers on the other hand have always intrigued me.

Richard brought up a D-48 for sale


and I thought it would have been somewhat desirable being number 1 but apparently not so in guitar world....or maybe Guild guitar world.

I have a very low serial number 97 Jaguar XK-8 coupe which garnered a lot of interest on a UK Jag forum.....month and day were easily ID'd. Interestingly most feel it was originally a press car, given to the writers at say Automobile, Road & Track etc. Fun to think David E. Davis or Denise McCluggage may have flogged it around at some point
 

GGJaguar

Reverential Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
21,870
Reaction score
32,208
Location
Skylands
Guild Total
50
With some brands & models (including Guild), spec changes have taken place in mid year. Some folks like pinning down exactly when those changes took place.

For me, as a researcher, it's this. It's pretty easy pinning down year of manufacturer and, in general, that's fine. Knowing when certain features changed is more important. Sometimes that works out well, but having done a lot (probably too much) research on Ampeg amps for the Ampeg book and Fender amps for my series of articles, I can say that no matter what general dates are determined, there are always exceptions. Hans has showed us many examples of exceptions with Guild. And the exceptions are what make us crazy. 😜

Then there is year of manufacture versus "model year". Gretsch was, and sometimes still is, infamous for this. All those 6120s that were made in late 1959, but were sold in 1960 as "new and improved" for the 1960 model year. So what are they - 1959 or 1960? Dealers sell them as '59s because there is a premium for that year. It's just like automobiles, too. My car has a tag that clearly states it was made in October 2015 yet we call it a 2016 due to its features not its completion date.

Another example - my 2012 Martin has a 2011 serial number, but it was a limited edition for 2012. The serial number was probably assigned and put into the work flow system late in the year although construction may or may not have started in 2011. I took delivery of the guitar at the Martin factory in May 2012 so it likely has an April or May 2012 completion date. Martin calls it a 2012, but there's that dang 2011 serial number!

A fun thing G&L did beginning in 2017 that, theoretically, should have made all this a bit easier was changing to a date encoded serial (Year/Month/Nth guitar made that month) and providing a "Build Sheet" with each guitar. This showed the specifications for the guitar or bass along with the completion date. That worked pretty well for most of 2017 until the wheels came off. I have many examples of guitars with serial numbers from 2017 through 2019 that have completion dates months to years later than the date encoded serial number suggests. Once again, "exceptions exist".

In the end, I've learned not to obsess too much about pinning down the exact completion date of any guitar or amp. Knowing the year is good enough though playing the "year made versus model year game" can be frustrating just as trying to pin down when features changed will always be a challenge and never exact due to "exceptions exist".
 
Last edited:

Antney

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
510
Reaction score
176
Interesting Thomas...Don’t really think much at all about day, month, or year. I just really think about how well the instrument plays and sounds, as well as the integrity of the build. When I bought my April 12, 1993 d50 I played a used j45 and d28 along side of it...never knew or cared about the age of any of them. Bought the guild because it sounded and played better to my liking than the others. Turned out to be 13 years old at the time.

interestingly enough, I bought my 79 Les Paul new, and that was suppose to be a “dog” year or era for LPs. I played several, and then I played mine...it is an AMAZING guitar. Literally everyone who plays it wants dibs on it if I ever let it go.

So to me dates and ages are just numbers. Guitars speak for themselves. A 1958 Les Paul and 1936 D28 are just old guitars. Most are amazing, some not so much. I don’t think the pricing justifies the purchase or is an indication of the playability or tone in all cases.
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
23,067
Reaction score
18,714
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
Just an update that my three-month span was correct and after talking with hans the guitar is one month younger than I am.

Why did I do it? Because it was fun to find out and I'm kind of bored since i spent all this time preparing for murder hornets that never came. ;)
 

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
24,025
Reaction score
8,113
Location
Massachusetts
One issue is whether it is even possible to get the info about the build date. I think it's interesting but more about "curiosity" as has been said. The exception would be a birth year guitar, you want to be sure its actually that year. But a "birth year" is all I care about, they don't call it a birth "day" or birth "month" guitar!

I know the actual day of the build for my '11 F-30RCE, but that's only because of the detailed serial number info available.

2011 Guild F-30RCE STD Sitka Spruce and Indian Rosewood with Cutaway. Serial number NO115003.

N = New Hartford, O = 2011, 115 = Julian build date (April 25, 2011), 003 = third guitar built that day.


Pretty cool!

For my '58 Gibson ES-225T, a birth year guitar, I know much less.

1958 Gibson ES-225T Sunburst. FON number T 5964 5. T is 1958. This letter precedes the batch number within the Factory Order Number (FON) and denotes the year of manufacturer. The batch number is the first 4 digits of the FON, followed by a 1- or 2-digit sequence number (within the batch).

Very interesting, but much less informative regarding the month/day, etc.

walrus
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,426
Reaction score
6,625
Guild Total
2
I just like knowing the year it was built, not necessarily the month the neck block was attached or the guitar actually left the production line etc. Just the year. I find it interesting how every guitar mfg had good decades and not so good ones, like Martin really struggled in the 70s. Guild appears to have done quite well in the 70s and 80s and even 90s. Gibson also struggled in the 70s. Different management approaches etc, I find that sutff interesting. Plus, re Guild acoustics, I think it fun when Hans will confirm, "yes, that D35 is from 1984...etc."
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
23,067
Reaction score
18,714
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
What drives me nuts is "how many were made?"

I'm totally spoiled with so many rare guitars, and I get the bragging rights thing, but a lot of the people I get asking me only want to write OMG RARE ONE OF ONLY 26.5 MADE!!!11!!!! on their Ebay ad title.
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,426
Reaction score
6,625
Guild Total
2
but GAD my new to me D35 is from 1984, and its heaviness is so freakin rare, man. so rare.

LMAO
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,756
Reaction score
8,889
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
I've never cared about a birth year instrument, in part because Guild was not making basses when I was born.

There is almost no data that can be used to match Guild basses to a month so why bother? (Well if I were truly obsessive, I'd check pot codes but that tells me the earliest date it could have been finished which may or may not mean anything). Similarly basses were not always completed in serial number order so building a feature chronology from serial numbers won't be reliably correct. (Ask me how I know). Then there are things like a 1964 serial number on a bass model that was not introduced until 1965 and known duplicates and the whole exercise becomes a Fool's Errand and there are other things to obsess about.

These comments only apply until the end of the Westerly era since subsequent serial number schemes encoded date or finish order. There are also the neck block notations for acoustics but again, what do the dates really mean when serial numbers are not guaranteed to be chronological?

That said, there are products where specs changed and the date of manufacture can be used to correctly predict what the specs are so the information can be useful but that generally does not describe Guild guitars :)
 

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
24,025
Reaction score
8,113
Location
Massachusetts
What drives me nuts is "how many were made?"

I'm totally spoiled with so many rare guitars, and I get the bragging rights thing, but a lot of the people I get asking me only want to write OMG RARE ONE OF ONLY 26.5 MADE!!!11!!!! on their Ebay ad title.

"26.5"? LMAO! What happened, did gibsondependable get the other half?! :ROFLMAO:

walrus
 

Stuball48

Senior Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
4,785
Reaction score
2,584
Location
Dickson, TN
Somewhat Veer but relevant in my mind.
I never buy anything made on an assembly line if I know it was made on Monday or Friday. Why Monday--hangover from weekend. Why Friday--looking forward to weekend. Might overlook or miss important assembly directions. And could be -- just -- me!
 

dreadnut

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
16,082
Reaction score
6,442
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Guild Total
2
I'm thinking Guild made more D25's than any other model. And I have one! A bicentennial model nonetheless; produced in Westerly RI in 1976.
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,756
Reaction score
8,889
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
Somewhat Veer but relevant in my mind.
I never buy anything made on an assembly line if I know it was made on Monday or Friday. Why Monday--hangover from weekend. Why Friday--looking forward to weekend. Might overlook or miss important assembly directions. And could be -- just -- me!

That went around decades ago especially for cars. Some time later, 90's perhaps, when QA/QC for software was part of my duties, I came across a paper that showed, as far as the consumer was concerned, there was no difference in an individual automobile's quality that correlated to the day it finished final assembly. So it is probably not true anymore. That said, perspective is everything. The consumer sees that cars that pass inspection but there was no mention of whether the number of cars the inspectors rejected correlated with the day of final assembly.

I am unlikely to make the effort to find the day of final assembly, especially, if I have the opportunity to do my own inspection before the purchase is finalized.

I should also note that the legend of "Pepsi Fridays" at Westerly is just a legend.

 

DThomasC

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
1,283
Reaction score
187
Location
Finger Lakes, New York, USA
What does "day" even mean in this context? With babies we talk about their birthday, but that's just the day they happened to be delivered from their mother's womb. There was a 9 month gestation period before that. It's sorta the same with guitars, isn't it? I mean, there must be a long time between when the construction planner schedules the build and when it actually leaves the factory. Moreover, there might be intermediate stages. By that I mean the planner might schedule a run of common super structures (to use Han's terminology.) Some of those might sit unused until a specific order comes in and then the instrument is completed. That could be months.

So when you ask about the day, month, year... day of what?
 

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
24,025
Reaction score
8,113
Location
Massachusetts
Somewhat Veer but relevant in my mind.
I never buy anything made on an assembly line if I know it was made on Monday or Friday. Why Monday--hangover from weekend. Why Friday--looking forward to weekend. Might overlook or miss important assembly directions. And could be -- just -- me!
That went around decades ago especially for cars. Some time later, 90's perhaps, when QA/QC for software was part of my duties, I came across a paper that showed, as far as the consumer was concerned, there was no difference in an individual automobile's quality that correlated to the day it finished final assembly. So it is probably not true anymore. That said, perspective is everything. The consumer sees that cars that pass inspection but there was no mention of whether the number of cars the inspectors rejected correlated with the day of final assembly.

I am unlikely to make the effort to find the day of final assembly, especially, if I have the opportunity to do my own inspection before the purchase is finalized.

I should also note that the legend of "Pepsi Fridays" at Westerly is just a legend.


Yes, I heard that from more than one person about cars - never guitars, though. A wildly random sample of three people I knew that worked GM assembly lines in the 70's - all three were alcoholics. So maybe there was some truth to it...

walrus
 
Top