Gave the F-512 a going-over today

[devellis]

Well, the time finally came for restringing the F-512. I decided to take off all the strings and do a bit of maintenance. For openers, I polished the bridge. I never liked the dull bridge, so I took it through the series of grades of Micro-Mesh pads from 3200 to 12000. It now has a soft sheen, which looks much nicer to my eye and it feels silky smooth. I also gave the fingerboard a light coat of lemon oil, mainly to clean it but also to moisturize it a bit. Surprisingly, a fair amount of "brown" came off on the cloth. the wood didn't fade or anything, but there was a noticeable reddish-brown hue on the cloth I put the oil on and cleaned the board with.

The string change was the adventure I expected. It'll be easier next time. First thing I noticed is that the bridge pins wanted to pop out. A little bend in the ball-end of the string fixed that but I've never seen a guitar with such a propensity to spit bridge pins unless the string was crimped down by the ball.

The notched tuning posts with the hole down the center are interesting. One nice thing about them is that unstringing is exceptionally fast. You don't have to unwind the string and pull the end out of the post. just loosen it a bit and pull all the windings straight up and they're off. Okay, got the old ones off in a flash. Shined up the bridge and oiled the fretboard. Now time to put the new strings on.

All went well, pre-cutting the strings and putting a right-angle bend in it about an inch from the tip for the part that goes down the hole. Cutting the string about half way between the next post and the one beyond it seemed about right. I went longer on the first string and have a bit too much excess on the post. Nothing outrageous but more winds (probably about 5) than I prefer (2 or 3).

Then I got to the high G-string. It's way too thin to simply bend and insert. It took me a while to find the best approach and it needed the use of a dental tool. Basically, I bent it as best i could (kind of like bending a hair), tucked the bent tip down the hole and held it there with the dental tool (after failing a few times trying to position and hold it with fingers). The slot was oriented horizontally (perpendicular to the strings). Holding the inserted part with the dental tool, I pulled the string to the right, exiting the outside edge of the slot in the post. I then wound it around the post clockwise, held it down again with the dental tool and ran it through the slot again (from right to left) so that it now was coming out the inside side. Still holding it down with the dental tool, I wound the post a bit. Then I could lose the dental tool and just crank. Whew, it worked.

I did the same on the remaining unwound strings. The dental tool was pretty much a necessity because there is no way to hold the string in place with your fingers without it unwinding, popping out of the hole, and otherwise working against you.

As I said, it'll be much easier next time knowing how to approach it. Sounds great with the fresh strings.

 

[Brad Little]

Hey, I think you've got something there. I had a ton of trouble trying to change my e and b strings, but I'm pretty sure I have a tool that will do what your dental tool did. Either one from my days as a piano tech (the name of which escapes me) or something smaller from a dissecting kit. Hopefully it will all go well when I need to change.
Brad

 

[wontox]

I love the way my Guild sounds with fresh strings.

If I understood correctly, you cut the strings before installing. I think most players find it easier to leave the strings full length; use two fingers height (about 1-1/2") on the fretboard at mid-point to give you enough slack for three or more turns around the post. I then cut all the ends with nippers. I have, at times, re-used already cut strings, and it is a real hassle to get them around the posts. Good luck.

Wontox

 

[devellis]

Wontox, I generally trim after, too but on the new F-512, there isn't a hole through the tuning post. Rather there's a hole down into the post along its axis and a slot cut across the end. You stick the string end down into the hole and bend it so that it lays in slot. So, a whole new approach to stringing is necessary. I hope I haven't misunderstood your post.

 

[taabru45]

You could do it with full length strings...........but you'd have a spool about 1/2" x 12 naah, you wouldn't want that... Steffan

 

[Treem]

what strings are you using?

 

[wontox]

Hi Bob,

I guess I did misunderstand about cutting the strings after. Wonder what the thinking is behind that kind of tuning post? Life is tough enough....

Wontox

 

[Brad Little]

Wonder what the thinking is behind that kind of tuning post?

At the Guild tour, they said that these tuners came from Gotoh, and were not what they had expected. However, they liked them and stuck with them. I'm going to try Bob's method of using a helping tool, as when I was trying to replace a broken unwound string it was so frustrating I almost decided to replace them with Waverly tuners. I do like them once they are strung up, though.
Brad

 

[taabru45]

I bought a set of those for an old Peavey guitar I have....being (very) old school, had no idea of how to work them, even thought about drilling holes in them :roll: finally took them to my friend who works in a music store, he said, its really easy , leave about 2" of string past the post, cut, insert, bend, and wind.........Ok, so I'm an idiot :lol: :lol: I couldn't even get that off the package....guess its easier to be shown sometimes, but.........not necessarily a good idea for a crowded twelve string....Steffan

 

[devellis]

I'm using D'Addario phosphor bronze lights. The tuners take a bit of getting used to but, as I said, having figured out an approach, I don't think it'll be a big deal next time, and they do look good when all is said and done. I tell you, though, I'd hate to have to do a "field replacement" on that high G string without a nice work surface, good lighting, and my dental tool.

 

[twocorgis]

I'm using D'Addario phosphor bronze lights. The tuners take a bit of getting used to but, as I said, having figured out an approach, I don't think it'll be a big deal next time, and they do look good when all is said and done. I tell you, though, I'd hate to have to do a "field replacement" on that high G string without a nice work surface, good lighting, and my dental tool.

Better start carrying that with the guitar if you go anywhere. You just know that would be the string to break...

 

[chazmo]

I don't think the .008 or .009 unwound strings gripping the peg is a new problem, i.e., do you guys think it has anything to do with the slotted post tuners? Maybe I misunderstand, but I've certainly had that same struggle with unwound strings threading through the normal single-hole posts. Without an automatic winder to zip 'em up quick (using the Taylor method that you guys have been discussing), sometimes I've needed pliers to hold the string end in place while winding (bleh!). Once the end of the string has curved over and slipped out the hole it simply will not grab again without being cut again or held / locked into place. Probably for these strings it'd be best to use the self-locking method where you don't cut the string and you let the first winding lock down the end of the string (you thread the hole, do a half wind with the excess side of the string under the entrance to the hole/slot, and then bend it around before you start winding). I'm probably not describing it well, but it's a fairly common technique.

Anyway, best wishes, Bob. I'll just have to try this for myself on those open-slot posts and see if it's any harder. I really do like the idea of easy off (as you pointed out) 'cause I almost always poke holes in my fingers trying to avoid the use of pliers or whatever to remove the strings.

 

[Brad Little]

I've certainly had that same struggle with unwound strings threading through the normal single-hole posts.

I had problems with unwound strings on both steel and nylon until I developed my own method of stringing. On nylon, occasionally string would not grip and keep slipping, so I developed a method that involves a knot on the end of the string. On steel string, the problem I had was that at least once, the string somehow cut itself where it was bent over at the post, probably an octave 'g'. So, I now take any unwound string, run it through the hole, bring it around 180 degrees and run it through again, pull it tight and it's ready to be tightened with no slipping.
Brad

 

[taabru45]

I thread the hole....the first loop is over the string towards the top of the post then the next ones are under the string towards the bottom of the post .........each succesive wind is moving towards the bottom of the string.....about 4-5 turns so when the string leaves the post it is closer to the peghead, and gives better contact to the nut.......my way anyway.........one of the few things in life I can have that way....my way.......... :lol: the 1st two turns..one above and the rest below where the string threads through......kind of locks the string in by squeezing it......easy to get off too...... Steffan....oh, and have been doing that forl years without a winder.......kind of a ritual I guess, but now I'm starting to use a winder....

 

[killdeer43]

Don't forget the basic tool kit!

It works in most situations. :wink:

String along,
Joe

 

[devellis]

Back a million years ago when I had my firs 12-string (a Wurlitzer, no less) with conventional tuner posts, the thin G string was always the stinker. But with this type of posts, it's a whole new challenge.

You have to count on the string retaining the bends you put in it or you have to hold it in position until you have a wind or two on the post. With all the other strings, they're stiff enough to hold their bends. You put in a 90-degree bend (on a vertical plane), stick the end down the hole, pull the string against the edge of the slot to put in another 90 degree bend (on a horizontal plane), and you're good to go. Just twist the tuner knobs until you have a couple of wraps.

With the thin G, however, it's so flexible that the bends aren't sufficient to keep it where you want it. Hence, the dental tool. I still like the tuners and, as I said, having done it once I now know what to expect. But I'm very glad my first string change wasn't in a pub. If I had to change the G string in a pub, I'd keep it long, run it through the groove, wind a couple of turns around the post, then clip of the excess length and do my best to get the pointy end down the hole (with the realization that I might have to leave it dangling in mid air as with a conventional tuner). The whole bendy-pokey-twisty think is just too hard to do with a string that pliable and the absence of a tool to hold the string in position.

Maybe it's like an F-chord and after I do it a bunch I'll wonder why it was ever a challenge. Not there yet, though.