GAD Series and Solid Wood?

[kats]

Hi All,

I have a question that comes from a bit of skepticism. The GAD series are all solid wood. I have an F-30, and can see the distinctive grain of mahogany even through the dark stain. When I look at the mahogany on the GAD series, however, it doesn't seem to have any distinctive grain, so I start to wonder if it's really solid. Someone from a high end shop told me there are a lot of manufacturers saying it's solid wood when it's really a thin piece of solid over laminate. No specific manufacturer was named, but these are reputable people. I'm just curious because the solid wood on the GAD series (back and sides) does not resemble the grain of the solid on my F-30. I understand there are differences in quality, but I'd think the grain of the genuine would still be seen.

What do you think?

 

[jazzmang]

Hmm. I'm pretty sure that the GADs use authentic solid woods, from the ones that I've seen and owned (2 GAD50s).

I wonder if you could possibly post a picture of the guitar in question. Maybe lesser quality hog has this characteristic?

 

[chazmo]

Well, I have not heard of these being veneers. Of course, I haven't sawed one open to see.

It's generally true that most mahogany you see these days isn't particularly grainy. Rather plain looking, actually. This is what you see from Taylor and others who use lots of the stuff. Even Martin started phasing in other neck woods, by the way, because of cost and availability issues... so, I suspect the supply is more limited than it once was. However, by way of a disclaimer, I don't have the faintest idea where the mahogany stock that the Chinese factories use to build the GADs comes from. Taylor gets its supply mostly from central America (I think). Maybe China has local sources for mahogany.

 

[Ridgemont]

Hello again Kats,

Good question. I had this same question a while ago especially for some mahogany guitars. Yes, they are solid wood (not a veneer), but that should not dismiss your curiosity. That odd grain pattern threw up a red flag for me as well. Not all mahogany is created equal. For the longest time, guitar makers have used authentic South American mahogany such as Honduran mahogany for their guitars. Don't quote me on this, but I think this is the most revered of mahogany. This stuff is still being used, but its supply and/or export is coming into question, so that is forcing guitar makers to look for other sources. One alternative is African mahogany which is being used as an alternative (this can be seen in Recording Kings which are made in China much like the GADs). Martin took its 15 series which was traditionally authentic mahogany and is now mahogany or sapele. Sapele is sometimes pawned off as African mahogany, but they are different families. One way to tell the difference is sapele's stripes are more evenly spaced. At this point I thought that the striated pattern was due to the mahogany being of different varieties and growth locations. I also noticed that high end guitars never had this striped pattern on their mahogany, so I also thought that it was due to the grade of wood chosen (i.e. higher grade mahogany for martin and lesser grade for a GAD).

I was convincing myself of all this and then I went to a local guitar shop and saw a $4,000 all mahogany Santa Cruz with the same striated grain pattern as on the mahogany GADs. Now I am not sure what to think. Taking a closer look at my D25 I also noticed that the mahogany grain does not fit the stereotype. Sorry about adding to the confusion, but I can assure you that the GADs are solid.

-Ridgemont

 

[kats]

Thank you Ridgemont for your reply.

 

[bluesypicky]

I have the pleasure of owning 4 different mahogany guitars (2 of them all mahogany), and I second what Chaz and Ridge said, they all look like they could be made of a different type of mahogany....... Tricky wood! 8)

 

[cjd-player]

+1 on Ridgemont's comments.

There are lots of different mahoganies with lots of different looks.

 

[sitka_spruce]

My guess is Guild is flogging the GADs as mahogany but in reality are Sapele. Most "mahgany guitars" below $750-ish today are and those GADs I played a while back had that Sapele silk and wavy grain typical for the species. My dad's Tanglewood and my PRS SE electric also has it. Another givaway is the pores seem larger and less organised in a way, a bit like wormholes.

 

[cjd-player]

There are many types of mahogany in southeast Asia.
Japanese motorcycles used to be and may still be shipped in mahogany crates.

A group of us used to get the used crates for the wood for woodworking projects.
Some is as hard as nails, others softer like South American mahogany.

I don't know if any Southeast Asia mahogany is used for tone woods (guitars) but it would not surprise me in guitars made over there.

 

[Ridgemont]

My guess is Guild is flogging the GADs as mahogany but in reality are Sapele. Most "mahgany guitars" below $750-ish today are and those GADs I played a while back had that Sapele silk and wavy grain typical for the species.

This is another possibility that had crossed my mind as well. However, I was convinced that this may not be the case when I saw an all mahogany Santa Cruz with the exact same striped pattern. I guess I could see a $500 sapele GAD being pawned as mahogany (which would bring Guilds credibility into question :shock: ), but not SCGC. Here is the exact guitar I am talking about. It has the same inconsistent striped pattern seen on many of the GADs. I have had a close up of this specific guitar and several GADs and the pulping of the grain is the same.



Below is a sapele Taylor. The feathered striping is evenly spaced, and with my up close experience with sapele, the pulping is less evident.

 

[cjd-player]

There is South American mahogany (not Sapele) that is known as Ribbon Stripe mahogany because of its striped figure.
I don't know if it is actually a different species or just a genetic trait, like fiddleback and quilting, in regular Sourth American mahigany. But it is coveted for furniture.
That could be the wood in the Santa Cruz guitar.