GAD 25's marked USED, what are the most common issues?

[MojoTooth]

I notice that a lot of the GAD 25 guitars and many of the GAD guitars in general appear on Ebay and other places with a marking of USED on the back of the headstock.

Does anyone know what the most common issues are with these for them to be marked USED and/or blemish/factory seconds? i found a good deal on one and wanted to see if someone could outline what issues I would possibly be taking on by buying one. Thanks in advance.

 

[Bill Ashton]

We were told during our factory visit that the units marked "used" are those that it is not worth their time to repair, and that they go to a company(s) that recondition them, though this discussion was mainly regarding the number of Tacoma-builts floating around with that marking.

Although not in response to the question, during the walk through manufacturing, we were shown how they measure the neck angle before and after installation, so that any problems can be corrected before a piece goes further down the line...if I can recall correctly, the tech uses a digital protractor to measure this as it is more accurate than what was being done in the past.

 

[MojoTooth]

Hey Bill thanks for the info. I wonder what exactly they meant by "repair"...is it more of an actually physical repair or that a proper setup would fix it. I would guess most of the issues leading these to be "USED" would be the neck not being set properly, but I wonder if that is something a setup could fix or if it would require a full reset. The one I am looking at, let's just say the seller has no idea what the issue is with it, but I could get it in MINT but "USED" condition for $150 with original case. Not sure If I want to go through the hassle though.

 

[chazmo]

Mojo,

It's hit or miss. You take the risk and you get the low price, but the guitar has no factory warrantee. The reason (at least with Tacoma) could be one of discontinuation of a model, problems with the function of the specific one that weren't worth fixing, or just cosmetic damage that also wasn't worth fixing. You just don't know.

The process with "USED" guitars is that they are sent through some very good reclamation facilities and then sold cheaply to the sellers. I've seen some very good ones, but I wouldn't buy one.

That said, I don't know exactly what criteria lead to a USED GAD... These guitars come from Fender's Chinese facility (facilities?) and given the cost of labor in China they may have different criteria for what goes to reclamation. Sorry I can't be of more help, but those details weren't covered in our USA factory open house.

FWIW, you're not likely to find any more USA-built USED guitars from the New Hartford going forward. It's not that it's against policy, it's just going to be an extremely rare scenario that would lead to one. And also, FWIW, I think most of us feel this is a very good thing for the kinds of guitars coming from there.

 

[MojoTooth]

I never would have considered a GAD series GUild, not because I dislike them or think there is anything wrong with them, just that like many of us here I feel the USA made ones from Westerly are superior in every way. My only Guild acoustic is a Corona made D25m and I absolutely love it even though it isn't a Pre-Fender model. I am going to hold off on the GAD25, just too many what if's and I dislike buying anything on impulse because when the price is too good to be true it usually is.

back to my search for a nice Westerly Guild acoustic and a Vintage Starfire!

 

[cuthbert]

FWIW, you're not likely to find any more USA-built USED guitars from the New Hartford going forward. It's not that it's against policy, it's just going to be an extremely rare scenario that would lead to one. And also, FWIW, I think most of us feel this is a very good thing for the kinds of guitars coming from there.

If they close the factory like they did in Tacoma we'll find the entire final production marked "used" on ebay... :x

 

[chazmo]

FWIW, you're not likely to find any more USA-built USED guitars from the New Hartford going forward. It's not that it's against policy, it's just going to be an extremely rare scenario that would lead to one. And also, FWIW, I think most of us feel this is a very good thing for the kinds of guitars coming from there.

If they close the factory like they did in Tacoma we'll find the entire final production marked "used" on ebay... :x

Cuthbert,

I honestly think the winds of change have landed on Scottsdale. I can't say it for an absolute certainty, but our conversation with the folks in New Hartford really seemed reasonable and believable that New Hartford will be the home for Guild for the long-term future. The whole intended marketing strategy will require top-notch quality and custom runs etc. that just won't make sense if they shutter it all up and send it overseas. I know for a fact that the guys in New Hartford are dead serious about the buck stopping there. The issue, of course, is Fender's long-term commitment.

The introduction of the Standard Series and some other plans on their mind that we can't talk about yet (plans can change, as we all know) all resonated with us.

It's impossible to know Fender's tipping point for Guild. What I will say is that after LMG2010 I have faith that the former KMC guys have the will and the ability to make it all work.

 

[alpep]

guitars marked USED on the back of the neck are sold by a jobber called MIRC these are usually guitars that need work have cosmetic issues OR are overruns.

every company will tell you they destroy their mistakes or don't sell them but that is not entirely true. I have seen some companies with overstock sell their new instruments to this company and then in turn sell them without warranty for a fraction of the cost.

well, I have had both good and bad experiences with these guitars. I approached the company to buy some of their guitars and let's just say it was not in my best interest.

I head the response at the tour and felt that it was skirting the issue but I have heard the spin about these guitars from several sources.

caveat emptor

 

[adorshki]

I never would have considered a GAD series GUild, not because I dislike them or think there is anything wrong with them, just that like many of us here I feel the USA made ones from Westerly are superior in every way. My only Guild acoustic is a Corona made D25m and I absolutely love it even though it isn't a Pre-Fender model. I am going to hold off on the GAD25, just too many what if's and I dislike buying anything on impulse because when the price is too good to be true it usually is.
back to my search for a nice Westerly Guild acoustic and a Vintage Starfire!

Mojo as an owner of a Westerly AND a Corona dreadnought, I want to confirm your decision as probably being the best one for your long-term satisfaction. If you've never had the chance to play a good one, you should be advised that an archback dread is truly a different animal than a flatback, each type has its own virtues.
I still say you should should consider D4's (as opposed to DV4's) in good condition, unless you don't want the handrubbed finish. Also certain years of D25's get the pearloid headstock logo which I gotta admit I LIKE....

 

[Ridgemont]

Have you thought about buying the GAD 25 mainly for the case? I have a GAD and it's case is really nice, much nicer than the standard TKL cases that come with some Martins. You could then use the GAD 25 as a real beater (take to the beach, camping, through in the hot car, etc.) One thing you may want to consider in a beater guitar is the polyester finish. It is tough as nails and will not check with rapid temp changes, unlike the more elegant but very sensitive nitro finish on the American Guilds. $150 ain't much to spend for a take anywhere guitar.

 

[MojoTooth]

Mojo as an owner of a Westerly AND a Corona dreadnought, I want to confirm your decision as probably being the best one for your long-term satisfaction. If you've never had the chance to play a good one, you should be advised that an archback dread is truly a different animal than a flatback, each type has its own virtues.
I still say you should should consider D4's (as opposed to DV4's) in good condition, unless you don't want the handrubbed finish. Also certain years of D25's get the pearloid headstock logo which I gotta admit I LIKE....

Thanks for the info, I don't think I have ever played an archback dread. I have played one of the DV4's though and it was a nice guitar but I am really digging my D25m so I want to look for a vintage one. I just missed out on a real nice sunburst D25m from Corona tonight! I haven't seen the D25 with the pearloid yet but I bet it is sweet.

 

[MojoTooth]

Have you thought about buying the GAD 25 mainly for the case? I have a GAD and it's case is really nice, much nicer than the standard TKL cases that come with some Martins. You could then use the GAD 25 as a real beater (take to the beach, camping, through in the hot car, etc.) One thing you may want to consider in a beater guitar is the polyester finish. It is tough as nails and will not check with rapid temp changes, unlike the more elegant but very sensitive nitro finish on the American Guilds. $150 ain't much to spend for a take anywhere guitar.

good idea, arent the GAD cases like a heavy duty grey color tweed? They look really nice.

 

[cuthbert]

Cuthbert,

I honestly think the winds of change have landed on Scottsdale. I can't say it for an absolute certainty, but our conversation with the folks in New Hartford really seemed reasonable and believable that New Hartford will be the home for Guild for the long-term future. The whole intended marketing strategy will require top-notch quality and custom runs etc. that just won't make sense if they shutter it all up and send it overseas. I know for a fact that the guys in New Hartford are dead serious about the buck stopping there. The issue, of course, is Fender's long-term commitment.

The introduction of the Standard Series and some other plans on their mind that we can't talk about yet (plans can change, as we all know) all resonated with us.

It's impossible to know Fender's tipping point for Guild. What I will say is that after LMG2010 I have faith that the former KMC guys have the will and the ability to make it all work.

Chazmo, you know that I'm an Ovation fan, I know the Kaman people very well and I can just say great things about them, unfortunately, the Guild brand has been mismanaged in the last 10 years, they changed plants four times, and I'm pretty sure that every time they moved everything started with the best intentions...the introduction of the Standard Series makes me think about the Contemporary Series, that program was even more ambitious and they spent a lot of money in R&D, but in the end they killed the Tacoma brand and moved Guild once more time.

Plus, as other Ovation fans I've the feeling that they're putting the Ovation brand aside like they did with Tacoma when they moved there the production of Guild: they sent most of the line abroad and I don't like it...in general I've the impression that Fender has become too big as corporation, and they can't keep all these brands without sacrificing some, in short, it's a sort of GM of the mucis market.

Personally I think that it would have been better if the Kamans didn't sell their business, and Guild had remained in Tacoma.

 

[chazmo]

C,

I totally understand what you're saying.

You're right that prognosticating on the future is risky business and it's foolish to make empty guarantees. Everything you said is true.

However, since our exposure to the folks at LMG, I don't agree that that an independent KMC would've been a better situation. Before Fender took over, KMC had already offshored a lot of Ovation production. Hamers are custom builds in tiny numbers. So, the introduction of Guild to New Hartford is a hugely positive thing for them. I think they know it, Cuthy, and I think they're going to do everything they can to hold on to it. I didn't see any frowning faces out there, even when we were offsite with a few of them.

That said, the migration of the brand over the last 10 years and particularly the shuttering of Tacoma are wounds that will take time to heal. I completely agree. And, while I won't see anything disparaging about any of Guild's former homes, these folks in Connecticut seem to be getting the right level of support from Fender to believe it's a long-term plan.

 

[alpep]

C,

Before Fender took over, KMC had already offshored a lot of Ovation production.

this statement is DEAD wrong.

I have been an Ovation dealer for around 15 years. Please do not give out wrong information.

Fender took over the first thing they did was send production of all the low end guitars overseas.
elite T, standard balladeer, balladeer, standard legend, legend. these models were all in production prior to the Fender takeover without any plan (to my knowledge) of a transition to off shore production.

That is fact

 

[chazmo]

C,

Before Fender took over, KMC had already offshored a lot of Ovation production.

this statement is DEAD wrong.

I have been an Ovation dealer for around 15 years. Please do not give out wrong information.

Fender took over the first thing they did was send production of all the low end guitars overseas.
elite T, standard balladeer, balladeer, standard legend, legend. these models were all in production prior to the Fender takeover without any plan (to my knowledge) of a transition to off shore production.

That is fact

Al, it's never my intention to give out wrong information, and if I did so I apologize. However, I specifically asked this question of one of our KMC hosts (I don't remember who) and that's what I was told. Are you certain that I heard wrong? I'm fairly sure I didn't, Al... Perhaps the plans were in place but hadn't been implemented yet??? I'm sorry if I interpreted it wrong.

 

[fronobulax]

If they close the factory like they did in Tacoma we'll find the entire final production marked "used" on ebay... :x

Actually as explained at LMG Tacoma production was used to meet orders during the time the New Hartford plant was ramping up and not producing anything. The guitars dumped as used were guitars that did not meet whatever the minimum specifications were. The plant closing meant there was no place locally to repair or refurbish those guitars so the choice was to trash them, unload them, or ship them to New Hartford (or Nashville) to have the issues addressed. We know which option was taken.

Whether or not the company line is true, your use of "entire" certainly contradicts the company line.

My personal opinion is to swallow the company line since there is ample evidence that not everything that came out of Tacoma is junk and the course of action makes economic sense.

 

[alpep]

I do not get paid to spin facts like company puppets do.

what I told you was fact.

C,

Before Fender took over, KMC had already offshored a lot of Ovation production.

this statement is DEAD wrong.

I have been an Ovation dealer for around 15 years. Please do not give out wrong information.

Fender took over the first thing they did was send production of all the low end guitars overseas.
elite T, standard balladeer, balladeer, standard legend, legend. these models were all in production prior to the Fender takeover without any plan (to my knowledge) of a transition to off shore production.

That is fact

Al, it's never my intention to give out wrong information, and if I did so I apologize. However, I specifically asked this question of one of our KMC hosts (I don't remember who) and that's what I was told. Are you certain that I heard wrong? I'm fairly sure I didn't, Al... Perhaps the plans were in place but hadn't been implemented yet??? I'm sorry if I interpreted it wrong.

 

[chazmo]

I do not get paid to spin facts like company puppets do.

what I told you was fact.

Hehehe... OK, Al. I assure you I wasn't out to mislead anyone and I doubly assure you that no one's payin' me to do that either. Although, my price is pretty low!!

Hope to see you at our next gathering, whatever / whenever it happens!

 

[Ridgemont]

Have you thought about buying the GAD 25 mainly for the case? I have a GAD and it's case is really nice, much nicer than the standard TKL cases that come with some Martins. You could then use the GAD 25 as a real beater (take to the beach, camping, through in the hot car, etc.) One thing you may want to consider in a beater guitar is the polyester finish. It is tough as nails and will not check with rapid temp changes, unlike the more elegant but very sensitive nitro finish on the American Guilds. $150 ain't much to spend for a take anywhere guitar.

good idea, arent the GAD cases like a heavy duty grey color tweed? They look really nice.

ok, well trying to get off of this veer and avoid a fist fight, yes Mojo, the GAD cases are a green-grey tweed. They have an archtop that is very sturdy (i.e. a good amount of top pressure will not cave it in). The TKL case and other cases I have are not archtops and will sink with the slightest pressure. The GAD cases, while new, are very vintage looking and should fit your Corona flatback D25. This is only a guess though.