First guilds from the new factory...

[Guildgator]

I love the Guild basses. The Starfire has the total retro factor, and a decent sound. But my B302 is the money bass, as least as far as my Guilds go. I wish Fender would start making Guild basses and electrics but it will never happen. There is always room for another version of the stratocaster though, how many are there, one hundred?

 

[LarryL]

Here's my contribution.

My friend K. owns a really nice guitar store near my house. He's also a PhD in electrical engineering and was a touring rock n roll musician for a lot of years. He makes most of his living from his engineering. The store is sort of a hobby.

A few years ago another local music store decided to drop the Guild line. These were all Westerly made guitars that had been in stock for awhile. K liked them, bought all the inventory, and called the sales rep to place an order. He ordered a few GAD's and some American axes. The later were made in Corona.

Here's what he told me. When the Corona guitars arrived, they were so inferior to the Westerly axes he sent them back and dropped the line. He now has only a couple of GAD dreads left which he's closing out at cheap cheap. According to him, no one in the music business ever takes Fender seriously when they talk about quality in the same sentence as acoustic guitar.

Despite all this, I was actually considering the purchase of a CV-1. It's such a lovely looking instrument and I'd love an axe of this type. When I found out about the bolt on neck, though, I changed my mind. I guess I'll wait for an old F-47 I can afford.

There are still lots and lots of Westerly and earlier Guilds, and will be till way after we're long gone.

 

[6L6]

When I found out about the bolt on neck, though, I changed my mind.

FWIW, Collings guitars have bolt on necks... Leo Fender did pretty well with them too.

Sorry your buddy had such a bad experience with Guild. I've owned both acoustics and electrics made by Guild in every location they've ever been, and all of them were truly great guitars. I expect the new ones out of CT will be winners too.

6

'74 D-40
'06 D-40BJ
'06 D-55
'06 F-412
'98 Collings D-1
'98 Martin D-45V
'03 Taylor 214

 

[ramsa]

My friend K. owns a really nice guitar store near my house....

I know the gentleman. He is responsible for turning me on to Tacoma in the first place. (2003)
Good guy, for sure!

 

[Guildgator]

I own a store and the CO-1 is the best sounding guitar in the shop. My rep told me Bob Taylor even complimented the contemporary series' designer because he was able to get desirable distortion from the tops. They are talking about dropping them so get one if you want it.

In regard to the conneticut built Guilds, I hear they will be every bit as good and the finishes will be superior. They had a hard time with Gloss finishes in Tacoma from what I'm hearing. Supposedly the new product manager has a good reputation for quality from his time at Alvarez and elsewhere. We'll see when we get our hands on one.

 

[sitka_spruce]

Play before dismissal.

Despite all this, I was actually considering the purchase of a CV-1. It's such a lovely looking instrument and I'd love an axe of this type. When I found out about the bolt on neck, though, I changed my mind. I guess I'll wait for an old F-47 I can afford.

I agree with 6L6 what makes or breaks an instrument is not really in the neck joint - and little do we know about this patented Contemporary neckjoint other than it's perhaps the best design in the business. You should really try the instrument before eliminating it from your short list since I'm sure you will be surprised of the tone it packs.

May I stress the Contemporary neck joint was not made for easy fitting or for saving time and money, it was made for letting more tone through and as Zplay mentionend in his thread recently comparing the CV-1 to the F47R the F47 actually sounded thinner than the CV which would contradict the way we're used to (categorically) think about bolt-ons, picturing Taylors at best.

Most of us were taught dove-tails are the neck-joint to have as that would give us the best possible connection between neck and body. These are CF Martin's words and there have been many so called truths from these guys over the years. They as most manufacturers use bolt-ons as a cheap means to connect the neck to the body and I'm sure not only my Seagull have a separation crack at just this area.

Comparatively Cort uses dovetails even for their laminate guitars now and I can't say there's anything special about Corts. Here the neck joint is more of a gimmick than a guarantee of good tone. Besides Collings I know for a fact Bourgeous uses bolt-ons of the old type and you know the kind of money people pay for these instruments.

I know Guild is particularly proud of their Contemporary line and knowing this among other things made me go with the Willy Porter signature sight unseen. Very rich sounding instrument compared to anything I own or previously owned of equal price or quality. No need to be concerned by things I don't see on this axe. Why worry if it sounds good?

 

[danerectal]

I don't think the bolt on style exhibited in the CV series is necessarily a bad thing. I did get to compare some Fs to a CV or two, and I would say the CVs aren't really the fully traditional sound you get in a glued joint. I could see wanting to avoid one in favor of a more traditional sound. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that the graphite bracing modernizes the tone as well.

 

[Guildmark]

I wouldn't have thought a bolt-on neck would "connect" with me, either. But Jeff brought his CO-1 to Arlington last year and we had a chance to compare it to all the other Guilds in the room. I thought it was awesome! Made a convert out of me. I A/B'd one against a Martin Norman Blake signature model, too. As nice as the NB was, I still had to give the nod to the CO-1. The technology makes any kind of neck adjustment or re-set simple for a technician. They rank high up on my list of Guilds to wish for.
Just my 2¢.

 

[West R Lee]

I played Jeff's CO1 in Arlington last year too, and even though I'm a Westerly guy, I really liked it. It had a good feel, was a beautiful guitar, and had a great tone.

West

 

[marcellis]

As I recall, product launch was supposed to be September - right?

That's a month from now.

Is there any news at all?

 

[Tres]

If they really are making new Guilds in the USA, then I can only say that is extremely good news and a victory in and of itself. I would also think that they would have to be pretty decent. I will just have to wait and see to tell for sure I guess.

I have owned two Tacoma Guilds and they were both excellent. I still have the Tacoma made f-47R which is outstanding. If they can come even 75% close to that guitar they will be OK.

Of course, nothing yet can beat my '65 Guild D-40! Age does wonderful things to guitars!

Tres
Atlanta, GA

1965 Guild D-40
1967 Martin D-28
1976 Gallagher 71 Special
2002 Randy Lucas LD-18
2007 Guild F-47R

 

[Frosty]

Bolt on necks - when I first heard about this technique (Taylor, years ago) the idea was distasteful to me. Years pass, and an outstanding Collings OM follows me home. I can't imagine that a dovetail joint and hide glue would make this a better sounding guitar. Come neck reset time (and it will come in the life of the guitar), I expect the cost to be lower than that for my old Martin.

The old Tacoma versus Corona versus Westerly. The best (sonically) D-55 I have had my hands on was made in Tacoma. YMMV.

 

[sitka_spruce]

Just hope I didn't put my foot down too hard on anyone with my previous posting. Wasn't in perfect balance at the time of writing that one.

However the point I was trying to make was so many variations on fitting necks to the body the two main categories of these techniques will tell you nothing of the outcome in terms of sound. Also you can't really tell e.g. what a "bolt-on" will sound like from what you know about the dove-tail from the same manufacturer.

Let me make an example: My Sigurdson OM has what they call a "scarf-joint" neck. Now that guitar has indeed an open sound and the Koa makes it a rather unclear in its tone, but the resonance content and the overtone content of the Sigurdson and the Guild WP is very much alike.

I'm sure had I participated in a blind test where so called dove-tails of this type and dove-tails of the traditional kind were played against eachother I wouldn't be able to tell which is which and probably guess the bolt-on was the dove-taile due to its longer sustain and higher resonance content, even if the bolt-on probably would be slightly brighter sounding.

 

[sitka_spruce]

As I recall, product launch was supposed to be September - right?

That's a month from now.

Is there any news at all?

The silence from Guild is in line with what I expect from this brand. You'd need to drop a rock on their feet to get some kind of reaction from that direction... :roll:

 

[Dr Izza Plumber]

Here's one of the new plastic guitars....... :mrgreen:

 

[Bing k]

We'll folks, after receiving 2 stunning F512s in a shipment today I called my rep at Fender just to say how well I liked them and what great guitars the craftsmen at the Tacoma plant are building then the conversation turned to the progress in Connecticut.
There is retooling going on. there are new machines being built, and there may even be some trial runs in the not to distant future.
I mentioned that the folks in Conn. had better be on the ball if they are to match the instruments coming out of Tacoma.

The tone from the Tacomas has just been stellar IMHO. That's what I would consider the highest hurdle to clear is getting the instruments from the new location to sound "true Guild".
We expect there to be some difference of course and rightfully so but that historic Guild tone has got to be the target.

 

[chazmo]

Great feedback to FMIC, Bing. I, for one, have my fingers crossed. Sounds like they're moving a little slower than they had initially projected. That's probably a good thing, and I'm glad Tacoma is still building great stuff during the transition.

Hans' book talks about the change from Hoboken to Westerly which took a few years, I gather. At first, in Westerly, Guild built volume, low-end models only to cut their teeth. I gather this move to CT is more of a lock, stock, and barrel thing, and I hope there isn't a hiccup or (indeed) loss in tone in what they produce. Wishful thinking?

 

[Frosty]

probably guess the bolt-on was the dove-taile due to its longer sustain and higher resonance content, even if the bolt-on probably would be slightly brighter sounding.

Maybe, but I think it's such a relatively minor factor. I know it all adds up - but I would guess that the Englemann top and 24.9" scale on my Collings contributes more to the sound of the guitar, which is warm and distinctly not bright, than the neck joint.

Believe it or not, I used to begrudge Martin it's introduction of low profile, adjustable truss rod necks on the M series in the early 1990s! I purchased one of the first full profile, non-adjustable truss rod models in 1980, before they started catering to the "fast neck" crowd. :wink:

For my consumer dollar, if Kaman can build a classic sounding D-55 and reduce the cost and down-the-road cost of maintenance by using a bolt-on neck, and do that in Connecticut, USA - more power to them.

My $.02, FWIW.

 

[Bing k]

I gather this move to CT is more of a lock, stock, and barrel thing, and I hope there isn't a hiccup or (indeed) loss in tone in what they produce. Wishful thinking?

Wishful thinking? Probably not. IMO It's the particular design applied correctly and then proper construction combined with the tone woods that creates tone. If they get things such as the top thickness and bracing for each model correct then they should be close to "home". Just the fact that it's different folks hands doing the work is going to make some difference just in the way the guitars sounds.
Take the same specs and wood, hand it to ten craftsmen and you will come up with ten different guitars, all probably very good but no 2 exactly the same. In multiple production the goal is to get each model to be as consistent within it's self to make consistent marketing possible. I imagine that in the plant there are rules about how things are done set in place to accomplish that end.
We talk here of Guild history and the way guitars from the different plants have sounded due to different folks, design changes, and more modern (maybe better, maybe not)techniques used in construction.
We've been spoiled with the Tacoma Guilds. Maybe (I hope) we will get just as spoiled again with the Hartfords .

 

[Jeff]

Our local Guild dealer here in South Puget Sound is down to one Tacoma built Guild (D40BJ) in inventory & half a dozen GADS. And...since they have heard zippo, as in zero, from Fender/Guild concerning future availability are talking a bit negatively about continuing to stock the line. Fortunately for Guild, I shared some of the definite rumours available only via our insider network. Criminy, I don't know nuthin either but I told em anyway.

Likely a pretty smoking deal could be had on the remaning D40. Nice guitar, I played it again yesterday for some time. Twas my birthday & I treated myself to about 90 minutes playing a bunch of their guitars, till Red tracked me down, dragged me away, took me out & got me drunk. (easier than it might sound, I'm kind of a lightweight boozer) My opinion, the D40 they have runs with the big guns, Lordy, seems Taylor 12 strings were never built to be played in public unplugged.

Played an absolutely georgeous Maple GAD, fantastic figured (flame) maple body & sides. Felt compelled to look inside & see where they installed the socks or whatever sound muffling media they used. Darned thing's not even close to the D40. Pretty though, the socks must be attached to the underside of the soundboard requiring a mirror for inspection. GAD50 was better, my opinion, (other than looks), money would be better spent on a Plywood Westerly.

Upside to this story is they have a verra nice silk (prolly not real silk) Guild banner hanging on the wall where there used to be Guild's displayed & it may become obsolete. I spent several minutes licking the banner, front & back, I'm pretty sure none of the employees want it now.