Fender to close New Hartford operations

[jcwu]

Here is a link to an AP article about the closing.

http://www.nhregister.com/arts-and-...tion-guitar-factory-in-connecticut-is-closing

Just to get my own facts straight - the NH plant was producing Hamer and Ovation and Guilds? As in, it's one factory and all the employees work on all three brands? Or was it more of a shared space, where Hamer folks worked next to Ovation folks who worked next to Guild folks?

We've seen mention of the 46 workers who were laid off yesterday. Are these 46 Ovation/Hamer workers? Or all 46 workers at the plant, some of which were working on Guild products?

If all Guild folks were let go also, will they be reinvited back to work at the new location, wherever that is?

 

[Ridgemont]

While I understand the idea of buying used Guilds (amazing deals on great guitars) I have commented multiple times on how Guild fans push potential customers to buy used all the time on this forum & elsewhere. Sound advice for the player. Horrible for the brand's bottom line. You seem to see this more with Guild folks than all the other brands fans combined.

How astute. This is absolutely a common theme here on LTG who's majority consists of those who are quite budget minded. Those guitar searching with thin pocket books would surely be influenced by many here at LTG. I was to a certain extent. But I do not think blame can solely be placed on LTG.

Guild fascinates me from a business standpoint and this has been the case since I came to know the brand in recent years. It has a name with much history, but as a current company, it really has no identity. Affordable lines made in Mexico and and China possess the same Guild name as high end American made ones that are marketed as "Boutique Quality"? This coming from a brand that was trying so desperately to climb the ladder to where it once was? I am no business man, but was curious to see if this strategy would work. Could it be that this multi-pronged approach has kept Guild from finding a home in the market place? Now Martin and Taylor have guitars in all price ranges and many of us have used them as examples to justify the apparent Guild strategy, but maybe that was not fair. In the current market place, Martin and Taylor already have a solid footprint so they can afford to take this approach. People know those brands. People want those brands. Guild does not have that luxury.

 

[Watasha]

How astute. This is absolutely a common theme here on LTG who's majority consists of those who are quite budget minded. Those guitar searching with thin pocket books would surely be influenced by many here at LTG. I was to a certain extent. But I do not think blame can solely be placed on LTG.

Guild fascinates me from a business standpoint and this has been the case since I came to know the brand in recent years. It has a name with much history, but as a current company, it really has no identity. Affordable lines made in Mexico and and China possess the same Guild name as high end American made ones that are marketed as "Boutique Quality"? This coming from a brand that was trying so desperately to climb the ladder to where it once was? I am no business man, but was curious to see if this strategy would work. Could it be that this multi-pronged approach has kept Guild from finding a home in the market place? Now Martin and Taylor have guitars in all price ranges and many of us have used them as examples to justify the apparent Guild strategy, but maybe that was not fair. In the current market place, Martin and Taylor already have a solid footprint so they can afford to take this approach. People know those brands. People want those brands. Guild does not have that luxury.

I wasn't blaming LTG, rather I was just pointing out something I think we've all noticed. You second paragraph makes a lot of sense. Rarely do you see such a valuable product with so much potential mishandled so badly. Fender just never has seemed like they know what to do with Guild, I can't help but wonder what would have happened if Guild would have merged with Gibson in the early 90's. It's not like Gibson has a stellar reputation with acquisitions either but they were apparently going to showcase Guild in a way Fender never has. Wishful thinking...

 

[Ridgemont]

I wasn't blaming LTG, rather I was just pointing out something I think we've all noticed. You second paragraph makes a lot of sense. Rarely do you see such a valuable product with so much potential mishandled so badly. Fender just never has seemed like they know what to do with Guild, I can't help but wonder what would have happened if Guild would have merged with Gibson in the early 90's. It's not like Gibson has a stellar reputation with acquisitions either but they were apparently going to showcase Guild in a way Fender never has. Wishful thinking...

I believe Gibson would have destroyed the brand if they acquired Guild. Gibson Inc. has Gibson Acoustic as their high end acoustic brand for guitars/mandolins/banjos etc. Once given the opportunity, they bought their rival and equal Epiphone and turned it into a budget brand (first US made and now China) that no longer could compete with the Gibson name. There is a hierarchy within all conglomerates with the intention to compete at all levels thus avoiding competition between its entities. To me, it made sense that Fender acquired Guild back in the '90s since FMIC really did not have a high end acoustic brand. But since Fender's acquisition of Guild, many decisions were made that had a negative impact on its reputation.

There is something to be said about a stable company that remains state of the art. I believe NH is/was state of the art and cutting edge, but lacked stability thanks to FMIC.

 

[Neal]

For some us, we started with a Westerly or two, then got curious about the later offerings from Corona and Tacoma, maybe bought one of them used, then were ready to make an investment in a brand new guitar from New Hartford.

That was my trajectory, at least. Seems like the Westerlies have been good ambassadors for the brand, often compelling folks to at least search out a new Guild to play, if nothing more that as a comparison to the bargain they got on their vintage instrument. Once that new Guild is in their hands, the craftsmanship is so clearly evident, that paying what they were asking starts to make sense for a brand new one that you can grow old with.

Neal

 

[Default]

Just to get my own facts straight - the NH plant was producing Hamer and Ovation and Guilds? As in, it's one factory and all the employees work on all three brands? Or was it more of a shared space, where Hamer folks worked next to Ovation folks who worked next to Guild folks?

We've seen mention of the 46 workers who were laid off yesterday. Are these 46 Ovation/Hamer workers? Or all 46 workers at the plant, some of which were working on Guild products?

If all Guild folks were let go also, will they be reinvited back to work at the new location, wherever that is?

Almost no Hamers. Mainly a new "Uncle Dick" for Rick Nielson and a couple specials. There were a few Adamas that I saw, but the main focus was on Guild.

 

[twocorgis]

I believe Gibson would have destroyed the brand if they acquired Guild. Gibson Inc. has Gibson Acoustic as their high end acoustic brand for guitars/mandolins/banjos etc.

I've got to agree with Jonathan here. Heck, Gibson would have destroyed their own brand of acoustics if Ren Ferguson hadn't come along. They were absolute crap in the 70s and 80s until he came along and worked his magic. I was thinking today that my recently purchased (new I might add) Orpheum 14 Fret Slope Shoulder is destined to become a really rare bird

 

[jcwu]

Almost no Hamers. Mainly a new "Uncle Dick" for Rick Nielson and a couple specials. There were a few Adamas that I saw, but the main focus was on Guild.

Which puzzles me as to why most of the press releases are focused on Ovation's demise. Seems there wasn't much left of Ovation in the US anyways?

This sounds more like a Guild plant closing, than anything else.

 

[SFIV1967]

Almost no Hamers. There were a few Adamas that I saw, but the main focus was on Guild.

Don't forget the Fender Acoustic Custom shop that was also located there.
Those videos are history now, so enjoy!

Ralf

 

[krysh]

very very sad. :culpability:

 

[Bill Ashton]

Default is right, although during the LMG IV tour, we did see a new Ovation model being built...in some numbers...with a different back bowl shape and a new carbon fibre-wood sandwich top. Had a simple name such as "AD-60" or some such thing. Wonder whatever happened to those.

During our several tours there, one might see the odd Ovation in an office or "lab" but that was it. DID see parts being done on the CNC machines, and I recall bins of mandolin necks several times. We were all surprised to see Fender style necks on the CNC machine (LMG III?) and then moved on to see them being made into dreadnaught guitars! This last visit there were many hanging, letting the finishes cure. Wonder how many Fender really sold?

I am really truly depressed about this whole situation. Probably had nothing to do with FMIC, but with TPG and its other partner calling the shots...remember that when you buy your Del Monte canned goods or your J Crewe sportshirt... =(

 

[SFIV1967]

Default is right, although during the LMG IV tour, we did see a new Ovation model being built...in some numbers...with a different back bowl shape and a new carbon fibre-wood sandwich top. Had a simple name such as "AD-60" or some such thing. Wonder whatever happened to those.

Maybe the Adamas SR?

Here's another piece of history now:



Ralf

 

[Bill Ashton]

Ralf, not remembering the teardrop soundhole, but I suppose that could be it. Seems to be the color was "blue-er"

 

[fronobulax]

Just to get my own facts straight - the NH plant was producing Hamer and Ovation and Guilds? As in, it's one factory and all the employees work on all three brands? Or was it more of a shared space, where Hamer folks worked next to Ovation folks who worked next to Guild folks?

We've seen mention of the 46 workers who were laid off yesterday. Are these 46 Ovation/Hamer workers? Or all 46 workers at the plant, some of which were working on Guild products?

If all Guild folks were let go also, will they be reinvited back to work at the new location, wherever that is?

Hamer, Ovation, Guild and Fender branded instruments were all produced in the same plant with common machinery, when that made sense. Employees seemed to be assigned by function and not brand. Someone who shaped necks would shape them for whatever brand was currently being produced. I never saw a Hamer in production although I saw a few unfinished bodies in the plant and a repair job or two. There were Ovations on the line at LMG I but even then the talk was that the lower end Ovations were going to be produced elsewhere. I did see Fenders and Guilds being made "side by side'.

I am assuming they are 46 factory workers with a paycheck that ultimately comes from FMIC. My sense is that Guilds accounted for between 50% and 100% of production depending upon the time you ask the question. I doubt that ant of the folks will be offered the opportunity to relocate. The fact that no one went from Westerly to Corona suggests it might not even be worth making the offer. We see skilled craftspeople dedicated to their work and brands. I'm sure FMIC sees a workforce that can be replaced and should be because FMIC thinks they were clearly not efficient enough.


Edit: Someone pointed out that the original appeared to express an opinion that the employees are somehow to blame. That is not my opinion and so I edited to clarify that.

 

[matsickma]

Having worked for a company right out of college that was owned by the "founding father" until today after five company sales and divestures over my 35 years I've come to get used to the constant churn in industry. I have been fortunate that our company site has prevailed all these years. We are now down to 350 people from our hay day in the late 1980's of 1200 people and with seqrestration and budget cuts impacting future orders and contracts we will likely be down another 50 to 80 heads in the coming months. I am sitting here at work having to do a ranking of staff and decide who is most critical to the business. This definitly $ucks and more than likely someone is doing the same to decide if I get to survive another lay off. It has been happening just about every six months.

Our company was divensted from a tier 2 defense contractor ($20B) five years ago to a tier 3 defense contractor ($3B). In that time the new owner invested a significant amount into our site and in return we became more efficient and burned down a $250M back log in record time. We got investment $ and they got profit. It worked well until the Washington disfuncton lead to an irrational budget process where we are now desperate to maintain a business.

Through all of this our new owners continued to buy other companies. At one point in time we had over 80 different companies in our brand. Some of the companies had a dozen employees and other hundreds. As the company moved from a holding company mentality where they basically left each individual business alone provide they paid paid their annual profit to the corporation to a consolidation of brand company where they standaradized process and provided investment $ to the business things changed for good and not so good. One of the things that happens when you become a large company is that adherence to government regulations takes on a whole new meaning. Violations of OSHA, EPA, Federal Labor Laws, etc. now become cumulative to the business. A violation at a site in Iowa is not treated independently from a violation at a site in Vermont and other facilities. Violations accumulate under the corporation and the penalites go up exponentially. In many ways under the laws of the USA (and likely many other countries) their is a natural selection process that requires large companies to shut the doors of small manufacturing sites. The EPA and OSHA laws require extensive modern equipment in manufacturing areas to prevent emissions into the air, etc. I wouldn't be suprised to learn that the Guild /Ovation NH site had received minimum investment in infrastructure from previous owners and now the Fender Corp can't make the financial number work based on needed investment.

One thing I also learned is that it is hard to make sense of a large companies plans. Often decisions are being made at different levels that seem to conflict. That occurs because one side of the business needs to operate while another side had long term strategic plans. Thus investment can be made in a company today only to have the site close in three years. The rationale is the investment is needed to meet the business needs now and then when the timing is right and all the ducks are lined up the strategic decisions are execuited.

Our company went from around 80 sites world wide to 11 primary sites and a few dozen specialized engineering and design sites in the last 5 years. Their are many business reasons but the main one is consolidation of manufacturing sites. The manufacturing sites is where complying with the regulations is so important; engineering design sites don't pollute and hazards are limited to desk ergonomic injuries.

Hate to be on a rant but as I said in my opening comments I'm working on a lousy assignment tonight and instead of a pleasent LTG diversion I got caught up in the NH closing issue and needed to vent.

So ...is it possible that one of Fenders strategic plans is to acquire as many struggling guitar manufacturers as possible and eventually close them down to limit the competition?

On a positive note it appears the Guild line will survive albeit at another site. I personally had no problem with the Corona electrics I played over the years.

M

 

[JohnW63]

Ovation still made all the Adamas line and some of the special projects and custom orders. They also repaired the USA build Ovations from all decades. I was about to send an old 12 string to them for a rebuild. Not any more. I spent some time making wish lists at Amazon and bookmarking web pages of Ovation dealers so I can buy something I would never before afford, if the fire sale starts. They have an Adirondack topped model that has my eye and a limited edition project with the odd center sound hole that was all new stuff they were trying out. The LT-60

http://www.ovationguitars.com/guitars/deep-contour-cutaway/proto-limited-lt-60-deep-contour-natural/

Tear drop sound hole model:

http://www.ovationguitars.com/guita...eep-contour-cutaway-natural-woven-top-w-case/

 

[fronobulax]

P.S. - I thing the reason so many folks focus on Ovation in the news announcements is that it was an Ovation factory before Guild, Hamer and Fender and Charles Kaman was in some sense '"a local boy" and his companies "local".

 

[Geral]

Sad truth is ..people want I phones, I pads, tablets and laptops. They want "now" they don't have the time it takes for guitars. No matter how great they're built. "The times they are a changin"

 

[Watasha]

I believe Gibson would have destroyed the brand if they acquired Guild. Gibson Inc. has Gibson Acoustic as their high end acoustic brand for guitars/mandolins/banjos etc. Once given the opportunity, they bought their rival and equal Epiphone and turned it into a budget brand (first US made and now China) that no longer could compete with the Gibson name. There is a hierarchy within all conglomerates with the intention to compete at all levels thus avoiding competition between its entities. To me, it made sense that Fender acquired Guild back in the '90s since FMIC really did not have a high end acoustic brand. But since Fender's acquisition of Guild, many decisions were made that had a negative impact on its reputation.

There is something to be said about a stable company that remains state of the art. I believe NH is/was state of the art and cutting edge, but lacked stability thanks to FMIC.

It was my understanding that Guild would have built the acoustics for Gibson & themselves & Gibson would have built Gibson & Guild electrics. If this was indeed how the acquisition (or merger) would have worked out it sounds like a better deal than Guild has with Fender. That said, who knows how it would have turned out in the end. I wish someone who actually cares about making guitars would acquire Guild. Novel idea huh?

 

[pjheff]

Sad truth is ..people want I phones, I pads, tablets and laptops. They want "now" they don't have the time it takes for guitars. No matter how great they're built. "The times they are a changin"

I don't think that's it at all. We've seen the numbers that Martin, Taylor, and crew are producing. And that's only the acoustic market, not the hundreds of thousands of electrics churned out yearly by Fender, Gibson, and company. There are plenty of guitars to buy in the marketplace and plenty of consumers ready to purchase them. The problem is that Guild has lost its brand identity and therefore its recognition especially among young guitarists. It used to be that Guild was known for making more affordable U.S. guitars and the best 12 strings on the planet. Somehow, that identity has been lost as Fender has tried to reconceive the brand as more of a boutique operation in a market already saturated with proven, highly esteemed instruments. Meanwhile, the market share that Guild once commanded has been surrendered to Godin and Larrivee among others. And sadly, that's why the fate of Guild is buried in a lead about Ovation instruments that readers are more likely to recognize.