Fender to close New Hartford operations

[jeffcoop]

Gretsch seems to be doing alright. But IIRC FMIC is merely responsible for distributing Gretsch . . . Gretsch itself is owned by an elderly Gretsch descendant (Fred Gretsch III, or something like that).

Maybe Guild would do better under that business model, rather than being owned outright by FMIC.

Gretsch is still separately owned but is managed by FMIC (hence my reference to "managed" in my original post. And my understanding is that the vast bulk of Gretsch production is now in Asia--even much of the high end stuff, which is built in Japan.

 

[davismanLV]

GEEEEZ>>>If yer lookin' fer some excitement there's a wreck out on the interstate!
(Sorry Tom, couldn't resist--layful: )

You know, Al, I heard about the wreck out on the interstate, but it's windy out and it would require effort for me to see that. I can watch this explosion of activity from my arm chair with a cup of coffee. Go ahead..... call me lazy. You know you want to....... layful:

 

[adorshki]

Go ahead..... call me lazy. You know you want to....... layful:

Let's take this outside, fella.
:wink:

 

[davismanLV]

Al, I already told you it's WINDY outside. I don't like wind.....

 

[Just_Guild]

From the Gibson forum:

"Guild has always been a well built guitar.. maybe to well.. to bad so many will be without work.. is Ren Building or just overseeing Work?




S,


he build prototypes from what he told me at the NAMM show he did the 60th ann Koa guitars last year .
he told me they were losing money on every guitar they built , they had some kind of old debt or something of that nature and he said that they couldn't aquire new materials to experiment/build with because they needed a capitalist with deep pockets to be able to invest in the buisness and settle the debt so they could move forward . The quality of the instruments were fantastic ! I played a few models upside down and they all played well .










JC "

 

[SFIV1967]

Read my previous post again. Sometimes letting something die is better than keeping something on life support while hurting the brands image in the process.

O.k., got it. So you would have preferred that Guild in Westerly would have died and never ever a Corona made Guild, a Tacoma built Guild and a New Hartford build Guild guitar would have existed. Your opinion. I prefer that they did exist. Looking alone on the Orpheum series I think it was worth what they tried in NH! You can't just live from the past, you also need to create new stuff. Let's see how long D'Angelico can survive. After all: "The D'Angelico brand had recently been purchased. They carefully recruited a new D'Angelico management team comprised of experts in sales, product development, operations and marketing. They supported them with a new, state of the art manufacturing, warehousing and distribution infrastructure." Sure, but where did the money come from? Maybe from investors who want to see a return on their investment soon? Not sure what their new CEO Brenden Cohen, who acquired the D'Angelico brand with Steve Pisani and John Ferolito Jr. really will do if profits do not come in as expected.
Ralf

 

[davismanLV]

True, Ralf. Although I think FMIC did some things to hurt sales and maybe didn't support the brand name as they could have, I don't think anyone thinks they ever made bad guitars. Quite the contrary, I think they've made a LOT of really NICE guitars. Great guitars, even. So I wouldn't want to confuse the running of the business with the making of great guitars. They're two different things.

 

[Default]

A quarter of a billion dollars of debt is a staggering amount.

 

[Watasha]

O.k., got it. So you would have preferred that Guild in Westerly would have died and never ever a Corona made Guild, a Tacoma built Guild and a New Hartford build Guild guitar would have existed. Your opinion. I prefer that they did exist. Looking alone on the Orpheum series I think it was worth what they tried in NH! You can't just live from the past, you also need to create new stuff. Let's see how long D'Angelico can survive. After all: "The D'Angelico brand had recently been purchased. They carefully recruited a new D'Angelico management team comprised of experts in sales, product development, operations and marketing. They supported them with a new, state of the art manufacturing, warehousing and distribution infrastructure." Sure, but where did the money come from? Maybe from investors who want to see a return on their investment soon? Not sure what their new CEO Brenden Cohen, who acquired the D'Angelico brand with Steve Pisani and John Ferolito Jr. really will do if profits do not come in as expected.
Ralf

Knowing what we know now you're telling me that Guild going away for a few years & then being resurrected would be worse than this mess? FMIC has mishandled the brand to the point where they may have done irreparable damage. It's getting very hard to take the current Guild brand seriously as a major player in the market when they literally bounce from coat to coast every year. I own 2 New Hartford Guilds & I love them dearly but the last 20 years have NOT been kind to Guild's reputation, no matter how great the guitars have been. I love Guild guitars, that's why it's so hard to see this happen.

To your point on D'Angelico: What's the worse case scenario? They don't make it & go under only to be bought by a conglomerate? So the worse case scenario is what has already happened to Guild. At least that company is currently run by folks who give a damn about the name & building great instruments.

 

[davismanLV]

A quarter of a billion dollars of debt is a staggering amount.

Think of the amount of profits you'd have to make to begin to eliminate that kind of debt in addition to feeding the greedy investors. I doubt there's any business on the planet that could overcome an obstacle like that.

 

[Neal]

Based on the one Tacoma guitar and the one New Hartford guitar I own, I am extremely grateful that Guild survived past Westerly.

But I do think the poster on the Gibson site has a point:

"Guild has always been a well built guitar.. maybe too well.."

Building guitars that are durable means that the attrition rate is low, most stay in service to this day, and the "need" for a new one is diminished accordingly.

Neal

 

[adorshki]

Not sure what their new CEO Brenden Cohen, who acquired the D'Angelico brand with Steve Pisani and John Ferolito Jr. really will do if profits do not come in as expected.
Ralf

Sell it to Fender?
layful:

 

[Watasha]

Based on the one Tacoma guitar and the one New Hartford guitar I own, I am extremely grateful that Guild survived past Westerly.

But I do think the poster on the Gibson site has a point:

"Guild has always been a well built guitar.. maybe too well.."

Building guitars that are durable means that the attrition rate is low, most stay in service to this day, and the "need" for a new one is diminished accordingly.

Neal

I think possibly a major problem is the fact that Guild has a staggeringly low re-sale value as compared to Martin/Taylor/Gibson. Many Guild fans buy used.

 

[adorshki]

Building guitars that are durable means that the attrition rate is low, most stay in service to this day, and the "need" for a new one is diminished accordingly.

As a matter of fact, that's what happened to Zenith televisions.
I miss mine terribly.
By the time it needed service at almost 25 years old, they were out of the biz.
With their computer subsidiary,(where I was employed), the problem was that they didn't need to build something that'd last for 10 years or even 5 when it only took 2 years for 'em to be obsolete. In that particular case, the pace of technological development outpaced the design cycle timeline within 5 years, from '85 to '90..

 

[adorshki]

Think of the amount of profits you'd have to make to begin to eliminate that kind of debt in addition to feeding the greedy investors. I doubt there's any business on the planet that could overcome an obstacle like that.

Depends on how long you have to do it.

 

[FNG]

"Greedy investors"? LOL

 

[davismanLV]

Depends on how long you have to do it.

And HOW LONG do they usually have, Al? Not long enough.....

 

[jcwu]

And HOW LONG do they usually have, Al? Not long enough.....

In this day and age, that there is even an intent to pay back the debt is already laudable.

 

[adorshki]

And HOW LONG do they usually have, Al? Not long enough.....

I refer back to Frono's comment that nobody ever really expects to have to pay back the original deal, meaning they take a gamble that they'll be able to keep restructuring the original terms until they're finally ahead of the game.
Kind of like refinancing a mortgage or doubling down in poker? But yeah ya can't just keep on doin' it forever especially if ya run out of equity.
Found this comment from post 204 here particularly telling:

.....he told me they were losing money on every guitar they built , they had some kind of old debt or something of that nature....

oh wait, that was a rhetorical question, wasn't it?
:culpability:

 

[adorshki]

"Greedy investors"? LOL

Kinda like zombies, they're not really greedy, just outright starving by now?
:eek-new: