davismanLV
Venerated Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 19,381
- Reaction score
- 12,217
- Location
- U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
- Guild Total
- 2
What would it take to make you "ready"???
Fender sells Guild.
- Thread starter Walter Broes
- Start date
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Yes, just read a few posts earlier in this thread.
It's actually all in this thread here. There are a few other threads that the original posters there already asked the moderators to delete. (because they started them without seeing this one).
Ralf
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
- Messages
- 13,654
- Reaction score
- 3,083
- Location
- Philly, or thereabouts
- Guild Total
- 11
Probably a lot of help? We have eight or nine, right?
davismanLV
Venerated Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 19,381
- Reaction score
- 12,217
- Location
- U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
- Guild Total
- 2
That seems like reason enough for me...... There's only three that I can tell on "Fender Sells Guild". If you're talking about the closure of the New Hartford factory, maybe..... but that's a totally different subject.
Last edited:
AcornHouse
Venerated Member
Maybe we should start a new thread about merging the buyout threads.
And another thread about merging the closing of the NH plant threads.
Then we could merge those threads.
And another thread about merging the closing of the NH plant threads.
Then we could merge those threads.
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,870
- Reaction score
- 770
My biggest concern is that the moves under FMIC were all to established facilities with reasonably sized, experienced workforces (although the Corona and New Hartford workforces didn't have experience with sold wood acoustics). Here, Guild production is moving to a facility that is (a) new and (b) tiny (four luthiers?!). If production levels were a problem at New Hartford, what's going to the be case at Oxnard?
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
I wonder how many square feet they would need? How big (in terms of floor space) was Guild in NH? Does one remember from LMG?
At least CMG knows what volume is! "...the Córdoba Music Group has several factories in the south of China, producing about 5,000 instruments a month, ranging from entry-level ukuleles to higher-end all-solid guitars built in a small boutique shop..."
Ralf
Last edited:
Bottom line is they will simply have to expand. I trust that the brass at CMG has thought all this through...I hope.
adorshki
Reverential Member
Yeah but those are already sproutin' veers. Even a moderator-generated one.
:biggrin-new:
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
Who's that Billy?This guy should have bought it
Mark Dronge?
Yes indeed. We had the pleasure of meeting Mark at LMG IV, and it was a real treat to talk to him. It's a shame that he didn't buy Guild, but I'm guessing that at his age, running one company is probably quite enough.
Sounds like he still has a passion & interest for the Guild brand. That's nice to hear. Does Mr. Dronge have any children?
Bikerdoc
Senior Member
I guess I'm not as optimistic as some; sorry. I don't see good things for Guild with this move. For us though it may be a different story a few years down the road, when those who some how acquired a Guild and really don't know what they have they can always turn to one of us. :applause:
Peace
Peace
Aristera
Senior Member
But what a present it would have been for his daughter/luthier Annika! Guild USA and Levin Europe.
srickl
Junior Member
Mark was accompanied by his daughter and grandaughter. His daughter Anneka has actually trained as a luthier and is an MD too. Would have been a match made in heaven.
Synchro
Member
That might not be the worst thing imaginable.
Gretsch has revitalized on that very business model. Gretsch is owned by Fred Gretsch III and he keeps a hand in the affairs of his namesake brand. FMIC markets and manufactures the guitars using various offshore facilities. Frankly, IMHO, they hit it out of the park with the Newark St. line and found a way to keep these designs alive at a price point that would make it viable in the market. Hey, I'd love to have walls covered in $10,000 guitars, but it ain't a gonna happen unless Ed Mc Mahon shows up at my door with one of those giant checks (and he passed away, some time ago).
I don't think that FMIC will be involved in any way from this point on. They sold Guild lock, stock and barrel. The guitars in shipment from Korea will go to Cordoba. I bought the last T-400 and the last Starfire IV. As I understand it, whatever stock is left will go to Cordoba, probably at the end of this month. I had a dealer working with me and it was literally a matter of calling FMIC, seeing what they had and seeing what sort of deal they were offering. On Monday they were selling NH stock and I nabbed the T-400. Yesterday, Tuesday, they were selling it all and I grabbed the Starfire IV.
I did this because I think that these are great instruments. Even though the Starfires are relatively low-cost guitars there is no real need to address any issues before it's ready for a gig. Anyone that can get me a decent, gig-able thin archtop for a shade over a grand has my attention. Hopefully Cordoba will realize this too and continue the production of N.S. instruments in the same price range. I have heard that FMIC sold pretty much every N.S. Guild that hit their warehouse very quickly. This would be a nice entry into the electric market for Cordoba, a way to keep the brand alive and provide some very serviceable instruments to offset the tidal wave of Strats and LPs.
I think you'd better jump if you want sales. FMIC is selling existing stock to Cordoba, but they are still taking orders from what is in stock. I've worked two good deals
It would make sense. FMIC already did the heavy lifting, they reverse engineered vintage Guilds and created a reissue line that is obviously able to be made at a reasonable price. If Cordoba tries to move upmarket with the line I would predict that they'll fail.
From what I've heard, that's a big part of what did them in. Apparently the facilities cost in New Hartford was staggering.
Everyone's core business if low priced instruments, with the exception of luthiers such as Bob Benedetto. Even the mighty Gibson makes a lot of satin finished, low end guitars in proportion to the number of high-end instruments. Most of the members of this forum are probably outliers as regards guitar consumption. I could probably have bought a Mercedes for the price I have in my guitars but I prefer to drive a Toyota and have more money left over for guitars.
Most consumers would think of a $500 guitar as being an expensive guitar. This is the mass market that keeps people like FMIC, Gibson, Martin and Cordoba afloat. They sell inexpensive guitars to stay afloat and that allows them the relative luxury of being able to build more expensive guitars which sell to a relatively limited market.
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
I know.
What I was getting at is that the "US production facilities" Fender and Cordoba are alluding to in the press release about the sale is probably not a lot more than something they can mention, and photograph for their website and brochures. An "image thing" if you will. I don't see how four luthiers and Benny Hill's cousin are going to take over production from NH.
If Cordoba would even want to produce the same number of models, and the same amount of guitars, with the same quality as NH, I doubt it will happen any time soon - or they would have to hire and train a LOT of people in an impossibly short time. (and gamble/invest a huge sum on top of what they've spent aquiring Guild) There's the possiblity of course that they'll farm out US production to an existing factory/company, kind of like what Fender is doing in Japan with Gretsch.
The NS guitars are pretty cool (I have one and have played quite a few), but they are what they are : fascimiles of classic Guilds built to a (low-ish) price point. If that, and a similar imported line of acoustics is all that is going to be left, it'll be a big step backwards for Guild, and that would be kind of sad. With what we know right now about Cordoba and their own US production facilities, I don't see how they could do anything else in the near future - unless this deal was really already in the works a year ago.
Which is another possibily of course : the complete and utter lack of publicity (ads, endorsers, anything!) for the NS line has struck me as a little odd from the start. Could be FMIC already knew they were only going to be selling them for about a year, so they saved theirselves the expense.
All speculation at this point, I know. We'll see what happens. I've always shrugged all the "Guild news" off to an extent, because my fascination and love for the brand were my Hoboken-built archtops - until I got my NH F-47. It might not be the same as a Hoboken F-47, but it's a seriously great guitar.
Last edited:
idealassets
Senior Member
I am hoping for good things if this Cordoba ownership does transpire. Really, I like the Guild acoustic guitars the best. And what better of an owner could you ask for than a group that can put out some nice wood and wire (or nylon).
New Hartford may have been euphoria to some of us late coming Guild enthusiasts, but really was it any different than the NY, Hoboken, Westerly, Curunna, Tacoma roundabout?
I'm really hoping for the best with this new turn of events, and really I see no need for despair. Can we recollect those famous words from the resurrected Jim Morrison: "Wayne you give the concert, and the people WILL come" (Waynestock). In other words, you make the guitars and the people will buy them.
Can you see it "The best of the new Guild, blended with the best of the vintage Guild, as played by the late Richie Havens & John Denver, and currently played by Bonnie Raitt, Brian May, etc etc..." ?
New Hartford may have been euphoria to some of us late coming Guild enthusiasts, but really was it any different than the NY, Hoboken, Westerly, Curunna, Tacoma roundabout?
I'm really hoping for the best with this new turn of events, and really I see no need for despair. Can we recollect those famous words from the resurrected Jim Morrison: "Wayne you give the concert, and the people WILL come" (Waynestock). In other words, you make the guitars and the people will buy them.
Can you see it "The best of the new Guild, blended with the best of the vintage Guild, as played by the late Richie Havens & John Denver, and currently played by Bonnie Raitt, Brian May, etc etc..." ?
Last edited:
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
By the way, I just read a post at AGF that not a single one of the NH staff got offered a job in Oxnard...
"We all had a meeting today with the CT DOL and found out about what benefits we will receive, unemployment insurance, et al. Fortunately we qualify as 'displaced workers' because our jobs essentially went to China. I hope you can see the irony and humor in telling a roomful of guys in their fifties and sixties (many of whom are world-class woodworkers) that we qualify for retraining benefits! AFAIK, no one has been offered a job in Oxnard, not that many would consider it."
Ralf
"We all had a meeting today with the CT DOL and found out about what benefits we will receive, unemployment insurance, et al. Fortunately we qualify as 'displaced workers' because our jobs essentially went to China. I hope you can see the irony and humor in telling a roomful of guys in their fifties and sixties (many of whom are world-class woodworkers) that we qualify for retraining benefits! AFAIK, no one has been offered a job in Oxnard, not that many would consider it."
Ralf