F312 Artist

[badlybleeding]

Anyone,
I'm looking for info on Guild's model F312 Artist. My 2007 Vintage Guitar price guide says it was made from 1964 through 1968 in Brazilian and from 1969 through 1973 in Indian rosewood. In a recent ebay listing the seller claimed his 1970 to be Brazilian. When did Guild stop using Brazilian on the F312 and it's other 12 strings? And lastly, anybody selling an F312 Artist? Thanks, BadlyBleeding

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Badlybleeding and welcome to LTG. The common wisdom is that no more Brazilian rosewood was imported after 1968 which is the nominal cutoff date for Guild and other mfrs producing Braz guitars; it's the year export restrictions were placed on the material. Just because you couldn't buy it anymore didn't mean that every manufacturer who had material in inventory threw it out, cancelled material in transshipment, or was above buying it on the black market or from failing competitors. So, it's possible that Guild and other guitars made in 1969 and 1970 could arguably be made out of the stuff ... and I emphasize arguably. Distinguishing Braz from tight-grained East Indian rosewood (EIR) is largely a matter of opinion among very experienced luthiers, repairmen, appraisers, and (ethical) dealers.

The common wisdom also holds that Braz, when sanded, smells vaguely likely chewing gum ... no, it isn't clear whether that means spearmint, peppermint, clove ... I think you get my point. Anyway, spotting Braz used to be a sport here on this BB until it became clear that any strong feelings were ultimately a matter of informed speculation. There are very few F312s out there as measured by what comes and goes on eBay. One member here sold one 1.5 years ago offering it first to the membership here ... making you about 1.5 years too late.

Finally, to answer your question 'when did Guild stop using Braz?' ... I think the best answer is 'when they ran out of it'. My suggestion when looking at a post-'68 guitar said to be made of Braz is to ask the seller specifically how they know that to be true ... and if answer stikes you as a little squirrely ... Good luck in your search, if you come across the Holy Grail too, give us a shout. :wink: Welcome to LTG! CJ

 

[kostask]

If there is any smell left in a Brazilian Rosewood (BR) guitar, you will know it is Brazilian. While I don't know if I would describe the smell as a "rose" smell, it definitely smells sweet, like a pastry, or like bubble gum, as Capnjuan said. You may be able to get the smell by rubbing a piece of bare wood. East Indian Rosewood (EIR), by contrast, smells sort of vinegar like. I don't know that it is possible to visually tell them apart, as some EIR can look identical to BR, especially on earlier guitars.

If the smell has dissipated out of the wood over time, I don't know if there is a sure way to tell, short of an electron microscope. You'd be pretty safe to assume that any 1968 or prior guitar would be Brazilian, but anything later is questionable, it may be EIR or BR. The probability that BR was used decreases in the later model years; 1969s could possibly be BR, 1973s would have a much higher probability of being EIR.

I wouldn't get so hung up on BR that I would pass up a good EIR F312. But, that's just me.

Kostas

 

[badlybleeding]

Re: F312 Artist-- Thanks

To all,
Thanks for the answers to my questions, it's of great help. I chose the F312 as the Guild guitar to get because I think I really want rosewood and it's slightly smaller and much plainer (chrome tuners, no inlay) than the F515 or F612, and seems to suit me better. Brazilian would be great but certainly not a must. I would be more interested in condition and playability. I have considered a JF30-12 (Maple), looks a bit more on the plainer side. There's one up on ebay now, the seller claims it to be the last year of production from the Westerly Plant, however my info shows that ended in 1997 and the guitar has the serial number AJ322726 which I think would put this guitar in 1998, is that Corona, Ca? I'm not really sure about that, anybody know? Thanks, Badlybleeding

 

[kitniyatran]

I believe the plant change was 2001; Fender continued Westerly production for several years after the takeover.

 

[kitniyatran]

I believe the plant change was 2001; Fender continued Westerly production for several years after the takeover.

But I'm no expert.

 

[hansmoust]

Re: F312 Artist-- Thanks

I have considered a JF30-12 (Maple), looks a bit more on the plainer side. There's one up on ebay now, the seller claims it to be the last year of production from the Westerly Plant, however my info shows that ended in 1997 and the guitar has the serial number AJ322726 which I think would put this guitar in 1998, is that Corona, Ca?

Hello badlybleeding,

The JF30-12 with ser. # AJ322726 is indeed from the last year of production from Westerly, which is 2001.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[jgmaute]

Welcome to the board BB, kick your shoes off, relax your mind.

I have an f-312 but never saw Artist attached to the name (I'd check Hans' book but we're redoing the studio and books are in boxes in another room). I did, indeed, sell my f-312 to another forum member about a year and a half ago...fortunately for me he didn't like it and when I got seller's remorse a few months later and emailed him letting him know if he ever wanted to sell it to let me know he'd already purchased a 512 and sold it back to me (whewwww, I am the original owner...what WAS I thinking?). Mine is Brazilian and it sounds wonderful. It does have some repaired cracks but I have to tell you as far as I'm concerned it's the 12 for me. Good luck in your search. I'm not sure there were that many made and they rarely show up for sale. There's a guy in GA who was trying to sell one on ebay a year or two ago but didn't get what he wanted and when we emailed he was kind of glad he'd be keeping it. Here's a YouTube video he posted when it was for sale. 1967 Guild f312 I just noticed that it has simple inlay on the fingerboard, my 1967 does not have any inlay on the fingerboard. You may be able to contact him through YouTube and see if he ever sold it and if not if he's interested in selling. The serial # he lists is about 40 lower than mine.

Here's a picture of the backs of my three rosewood Guilds...I don't know if all Braz rosewood guitars are as "red" as mine but you can cleary see a difference in this picture. (from L To R 2008 GAD 30R, 1967 f312, 1983 D55) joan

 

[badlybleeding]

To All,
Well, hope springs eternal and I plan to keep searching. I seen the term "Artist" when referring to the F312 a couple of times now. One was in the 2007 Vintage Guitar Price Guide and I can't remember the other but I remember some of the text. They said something to the effect that it was made for artists who needed a reliable performance 12 string for everyday use or something like that. I'm currently considering a JF30-12 as substitute, any recommendation on those? Thanks, BB

 

[taabru45]

Welcome to the board BB, kick your shoes off, relax your mind.

I have an f-312 but never saw Artist attached to the name (I'd check Hans' book but we're redoing the studio and books are in boxes in another room). I did, indeed, sell my f-312 to another forum member about a year and a half ago...fortunately for me he didn't like it and when I got seller's remorse a few months later and emailed him letting him know if he ever wanted to sell it to let me know he'd already purchased a 512 and sold it back to me (whewwww, I am the original owner...what WAS I thinking?). Mine is Brazilian and it sounds wonderful. It does have some repaired cracks but I have to tell you as far as I'm concerned it's the 12 for me. Good luck in your search. I'm not sure there were that many made and they rarely show up for sale. There's a guy in GA who was trying to sell one on ebay a year or two ago but didn't get what he wanted and when we emailed he was kind of glad he'd be keeping it. Here's a YouTube video he posted when it was for sale. 1967 Guild f312 I just noticed that it has simple inlay on the fingerboard, my 1967 does not have any inlay on the fingerboard. You may be able to contact him through YouTube and see if he ever sold it and if not if he's interested in selling. The serial # he lists is about 40 lower than mine.

Here's a picture of the backs of my three rosewood Guilds...I don't know if all Braz rosewood guitars are as "red" as mine but you can cleary see a difference in this picture. (from L To R 2008 GAD 30R, 1967 f312, 1983 D55) joan

Joan, I think you might want to cover the rubber/vinyl tubing on your stands with some cloth, or leather before it eats the lacquer off the guitar..this is the only area on my D25 that is a problem. It hung from a rack for too long. You'll see this on a lot of guitars. Be a shame to see those beauties with any avoidable damage... :wink: Steffan

 

[capnjuan]

Hi BB: it isn't an F312 - it's a G312 ... the dread-bodied version of the same guitar here on eBay. According to Dan Cipriano's webpage, it's a 1980 model. Some case cooties on the back from strap foam ... can't tell much else about the guitar itself.

Assuming the guitar is structurally sound, that's an EIR Guild 12-string for $800 BIN for considerably less money than a Braz F312 would cost you. Good luck in your search. CJ

 

[guildzilla]

Agree. That G-312 looks like an excellent deal to me.

 

[chazmo]

The G-312 has some serious love around here.

That's a good price. Someone should BIN that.

 

[jgmaute]

[quote="taabru45"
Joan, I think you might want to cover the rubber/vinyl tubing on your stands with some cloth, or leather before it eats the lacquer off the guitar..this is the only area on my D25 that is a problem. It hung from a rack for too long. You'll see this on a lot of guitars. Be a shame to see those beauties with any avoidable damage... :wink: Steffan[/quote]

Thanks Steffan. My guitars are cased most of the time but I'll get something on the rubber part of the stands. You're right, I sure don't want to abuse them, they've been so good to me. Joan

 

[dreadnut]

I've solved that problem by replacing the rubber with thick, clear plastic tubing available at your hardware store - works great and no finish damage.

 

[chazmo]

Hercules uses a light, black foam on the recent stands that I have... This seems to work fine. I wish I knew what it was.

 

[killdeer43]

Agree. That G-312 looks like an excellent deal to me.

Yes, I turned my back to ponder this one, had breakfast with my wife, and she said, "Go for it!"
I came back and it was gone. Proof positive that your gut instinct should prevail and you can have breakfast later.
That was/is a beauty!

Oh well, onward!

Joe
again

 

[12 string]

No worries, there'll be more coming down the pike.

' Strang

 

[badlybleeding]

To All,
Thanks to another member (Corvus) I've now become a Guild owner with the purchase of an 1972 F312. I already love it, sound and plays great. Once it's been played a bit I expect to open up it's full potential and get that rosewood humming. I've also purchased a 1987 JF30-12 for that maple sound. It's on the way and here's hoping it will also be great. Thanks to all for you help and info, it's been great talking to you. Thanks again, BadlyBleeding


_______________________________
Guild F312 -- 1972
Guild JF30-12 -- 1987, on the way.

 

[chazmo]

Excellent additions, blood!