Electric Hollow Guilds with tone block, or bars, or whatever, under the bridge?

[The Retro Rocker]

I like the big, SINGLE cutaway, hollowbody electric guitars with Bigsby, for what I do onstage. The problem with the one I have (Carlo Robelli CRB1955) is the pickups (Gretschbuckers) aren't all that great, and there is no support inside the guitar under the bridge...yeah, completely hollow, so it can feedback if I'm not careful. It's a gorgeous Peerless made guitar, and huge (17" x3" with a 25.5" scale) and I guess I could have all that stuff corrected somehow ($$)...but I think I would rather have a made in USA Guild. (I am SO happy with my Guild acoustics!) I've never owned a Guild electric.

I was looking online at a X170t, and one of the things I liked was it had some sort of block or something under the bridge to help control feedback. I'm not sure what they call it...tone block or tone bar or whatever.
Do the older Duane Eddy DE 400's have that? Also, on the early DE400, they have the D"Armonds...noisy? If you have the pickup selector in the middle position does it hum-cancel? Are the Humbuckers on the later ones better?

Or maybe I could look at a Starfire 3? (older USA ones obviously).

I like the DE also because it has a master volume knob (ala Gretsch). But I don't want a Gretsch. Here in L.A. EVERYONE has a Gretsch...LOL! If I can find what I want, I think I'd rather be all-USA Guild! (Not crazy about the Newark St. Collection)
And isn't the DE a 17" body, just a little slimmer?

 

[Neal]

My '98 X-170 has a soundpost that sits directly under the floating bridge. Other than that, it is completely hollow.

And I have yet to have it feed back uncontrollably.

My '54 Guild X-200 and my '59 Gretsch Clipper are completely hollow, and will feed back unless I pay attention to both volume and proximity to the amp.

 

[GAD]

Starfire IIIs do not have soundposts under the bridge. X170s do.

X-500s do after around the mid/late '80s but don't have Guildsbys unless you get a Paladin or something like that.

 

[krysh]

...X170s do...

nope not all of them, I saw with and without.

 

[gilded]

Retro,


First of all, if you want the least feedback and the most Bigsby, I think your best bet would be to get an X170T. The 'T' stands for Tremolo and 'T models' are optimized by design to work better with a Bigsby. The neck angle is deliberately shallower on the X170T compared to the harp-tailpiece 170, which lets the Bigsby function without binding up. Price-wise, an X170T with good flame just sold on eBay for $1040.00. I think a good goal would be to buy one for a $1,000.00

In terms of experience with hollow-body, Bigsby-equipped Guilds feeding-back, I've have owned 2 Duane Eddy guitars from the '60s and a '66 SF III. The Duanes could jump into feedback mode at the drop of a hat. The SF III could feedback, too- not as quickly as the Duanes, but consistently enough that you wouldn't want to play an entire rock gig with it. All of these guitars were fully hollow, by the way; no sound posts.

I am currently using an X170T that belongs to a friend. The feedback is very controllable. I think/assume it has a sound post. I will look for you when I get it back from the repair shop (new harness). Honestly, I wish I'd bought one 10 years ago.

In the mean-time, Carlo Robellis are good guitars. I think it wouldn't be a problem to get a luthier/repair dude in the greater LA area to install a sound post or two under the bridge area of your current guitar. You just need a small piece of wood like a dowel to slightly constrict the movement of the top. It ain't that hard to do!

Best of luck!

 

[txbumper57]

Hey Retro! Just wanted to add that I have noticed a big difference in the Feedback on Guild Hollowbodies depending on what wood they are made of as well. The all Laminated Maple bodies such as the Late Westerly/ Corona made X150's, X160's, and Westerly made X170s tend to feed back less than some others. My 1960 Laminated Spruce top X175 leans towards feeding back quicker than the Maple ones do. Starfire III's can be made of either all Laminated Maple or all Laminated Mahogany. Both are rather resistant to feedback compared to the deeper bodied models but will still feedback from Time to time. The Hog models tend to have a darker tone to them with the maple ones being more Snappy in tone.

As far as single coil hum the Original Dearmonds from the 60's do have a bit of it but that actually is part of their signature tone that everyone loves so much. The late Westerly and early Corona X160 Rockabilly models have a newer designed Dearmond 2000 that has much less "Hum" to them in single coil mode but not as much bite as the originals. My X160 Rockabilly from the factory has the pickups reverse wound with reverse polarity. This means when they are in the Neck or Bridge position by themselves the are true single coils. When you are in the middle position for both pickups the pickups the RW/RP aspect cancels each other out and they take on the characteristics of a single Hum Cancelling pickup. My Starfire III-90 from late Westerly/Corona is wired the same way with it's factory P90 pickups. You can wire pretty much any set of single coils to be Hum Cancelling in the middle position but this sometimes takes some of their "Spank" away. I know some Rockabilly musicians that purposely install their single coil pickups in phase so that they still have to deal with a little hum in the middle position but they get the full on single coil tone of both pickups at the same time. Good luck in your search Retro and I hope this info helps out!

TX

 

[Quantum Strummer]

Just wanted to add that I have noticed a big difference in the Feedback on Guild Hollowbodies depending on what wood they are made of as well. The all Laminated Maple bodies such as the Late Westerly/ Corona made X150's, X160's, and Westerly made X170s tend to feed back less than some others. My 1960 Laminated Spruce top X175 leans towards feeding back quicker than the Maple ones do.

This is also my experience with my two hollow M75s. The Bluesbird (all maple lam) is less feedback-prone than the NS Aristocrat (lam spruce top, lam mahogany sides, solid hog back).

-Dave-

 

[The Retro Rocker]

Thanks for all the info guys, From everything I've read so far, it does seem that the x170t is what I want! I made an offer on the one Guilded mentioned after TX and I had discussed it. I missed out on it by a few dollars (well, maybe a few dozen dollars!) But I'll keep my eyes open for another one at a good price.

 

[GAD]

X170Ts are great guitars. I miss mine, but I hope that sadness is rectified with the X500T!

I've owned a pile of Gretsches and they were all great guitars, but the X170T I had was something else. It was more solid, kind of the way a Guild acoustic is more solid than any Taylor out there. It didn't have the spank that the Gretsches had, but audience never noticed.

 

[The Retro Rocker]

I MAY end up with a 6120 at some point, esp if I can't get my hands on an X170t. Or maybe get an X170 and add a Gildsby or Bigsby. I'm not in a huge hurry, so I'll probably just hold out for a x170t. Lemme know if you spot one?

 

[krysh]

try a GSR T-500.

 

[Neal]

I MAY end up with a 6120 at some point, esp if I can't get my hands on an X170t. Or maybe get an X170 and add a Gildsby or Bigsby. I'm not in a huge hurry, so I'll probably just hold out for a x170t. Lemme know if you spot one?

I've got a '98 X-170 SB (with no tremolo) that I am considering selling, now that I have gone "old school" with the X-200. PM me if interested and I will give you the low down and photos. It is 9 out of 10 perfect.

 

[The Retro Rocker]

Pm sent

 

[The Retro Rocker]

Is an x170 the same as an x170 t, except for the Guildsby, or did they change neck angles or anything else to accommodate the Guildsby?

 

[dbirchett]

I corresponded on Facebook with a worker from Westerly whose job it was to set the neck angle on Guilds. We figured out that he did my Starfire, not my X-170. They did use a different neck angle with the X-170-T than the standard X-170 but there may have been some that slipped through. He couldn't remember how big of a difference there was but it wasn't much.

Although I have listed mine as a T model, it did not come from the factory that way. I had the Bigsby put on. What you need to look for is a very low bridge if you are not going to use the wooden one. I took the lowest profile tune-o-matic style I could find and sanded the rosewood base as low as I could get it. It was difficult to get the bridge down low enough but I have done it and it is very low action. I use D'Addario ground round wounds 10-52 and it is the easiest playing guitar that I own. And none of them are slouches.

In the spirit of constantly tinkering, I am considering having Tim Harmon at Tru-Arc make a serpentine low rider to see if that helps even more. Or I may leave well enough alone.

 

[dbirchett]

The other thing that I wanted to mention is that if you took your Carlo Robelli to a Violin shop, they would be able to install one or two soundposts underneath the bridge. These would be cello sized dowel(s) that would be wedged under the bridge. They have tools to easily measure and install them. Shouldn't be too expensive. Probably worth checking out unless you are really using this as an excuse to justify getting the guitar you want. (And haven't we all done that several times over)