Dating Starfire IV

[jackswingy]

Hello todos!

I'm new on this forum. I registered because I met a guy who wanna sell me his Guild starfire IV. He says that it's from 1965. The guitar is in very good shape. But I think something is wrong.. As you can see on the pics, the guitar has the master volume just next to the pickup selector. I red everywhere that in 65, only the starfire V had this master volume. Other thing, and I might be wrong on this, is that I gotta feeling that in 65 the starfire were only in sunburst or red cherry. Am I wrong on this? Is this starfire could really be from 1965?
Here are the pics

Edit: All the photos can be seen at this address: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137167231@N04/22317655696/in/datetaken/

Thank you very much.

PS: I'm french, please excuse my bad english!

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. Apology about your English accepted but at least one member here will tell you that being or speaking French is no reason to apologize. I don't know what happened to your picture links. When I tried to edit them for you they were not there. When the post was in moderation I noticed they were in Dropbox but didn't realize there would be a problem. You should get the public link and copy it and then press the IMG button here and take the choices to reference a remote image. If that doesn't help or make sense we'll try and sort it out.

 

[AcornHouse]

Bonjour, Jacques!
As Frono said, we can't see the pics, but as an owner of a '65, I can say that they do not have master volumes, unless one was added later on down the road. Once we can see the pics we'll be able to tell you more (especially Hans), but I think you're right to be suspicious.

 

[jackswingy]

Hello,

thanks for your answer. I transferred the pics on google drive, it seems not to work too... here is a wetransfer link with all the photos:
https://www.wetransfer.com/download...c134f68d65f2a0befb59ae8120151019173952/7d9c14

thank you very much

 

[jackswingy]

up !

 

[jackswingy]

Hello again!

all the pics can be seen at this address: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137167231@N04/22317655696/in/datetaken/

There's a picture of the serial number if it can help. Serial is EL 223.

Thank you!!

 

[JohnW63]

The odd wood work on the back of the neck makes me worry that the head stock was really broken. I can't make out the writing on the Guild label very well.

 

[jackswingy]

thanks for your answer.

Apparently, the head stock broke 30 years ago and was fixed by a professional. It seems to be good work isn't it?

 

[jackswingy]

up !

 

[jackswingy]

Can someone tell me if the pickups on the pics are really 60's starfires mini humbuckers?

Thank you very much !!!

 

[AcornHouse]

Can someone tell me if the pickups on the pics are really 60's starfires mini humbuckers?

Thank you very much !!!

They are definitely Guild mini-humbuckers. While there are now modern reproductions available from the Guild shop, you'd have to look underneath to see if they are the vintage ones. It is a better bet if you are in Europe, since I believe they do not ship overseas. Regardless, there's nothing that looks like they are not vintage.

EDIT:
Was looking at your pics some more, I would say they are vintage mini-hums. The screws in the bezels certainly look like they have the correct amount of age. So, with the serial number, I would say this is a SF IV from '65; the master volume might have been a custom order, it has the same position nail marker.

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG!

The Starfire IV with S/N EL 223 is indeed from 1965. However as you can see on the label it shows "Ch" behind which means the original finish was "Cherry Red".
So somebody removed all finish and refinshed the guitar with clear Nitro lacquer or polyester.

The tuners also were changed.
The truss rod cover is missing.
The pickup selector switch-tip was originally in metal and is now replaced with a black plastic tip.
The broken headstock looks very professionally and stable repaired.

The master volume potentiometer and knob is original! It was ordered this way from the factory, you see it on the "Spc" behind the "Ch" on the label which means "Special"!

The pickups, pickguard, knobs, bridge, tailpiece look original.

Ralf

 

[jackswingy]

thank you very much for your answer! I finally found another starfire, much less expensive. I don't know the original year, the seller told me it was 65 or 69.The serial is 43764. He said that the last production # in 64 was 38636 then they changed to a letter number system. Then switched back to a straight number system in 70 starting at 46696.
Anyone know something about it?

here are some photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137167231@N04/albums/72157660603477377

thank you !

 

[hansmoust]

I don't know the original year, the seller told me it was 65 or 69.The serial is 43764.
Anyone know something about it?

Hello jack,

Definitely 1965!

Hope you will enjoy the guitar!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[jackswingy]

Hello! thank you for your quick answer!

how do you recognize this?

 

[hansmoust]

how do you recognize this?

The easy way is the serial number, but even without knowing the serial number you can see that this guitar was made before the change to the 'neck-joint-at-the-18th-fret, which took place during 1966.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[jackswingy]

thank you!