D4 vs Dv4 bracing and tone

[midnightright]

clarity, balance,

Also, these may not be the first words that come to mind, when thinking back on any of my D-4's. However, I realize that this is somewhat, "highly subjective!"

 

[midnightright]

I think the bracing on the D4/D25/DV4/DV25 is all straight. The D26, DV6 and DV52 are a different story.

Oh, I did not know that the D-26, came w/different bracing! Thanks...

 

[chazmo]

@adorshki, good catch. DV-4 looks to have entered the line up in 1999, and it looks like the DV-6 went away. I don't know if I've got it straight, but it looks like the DV-6 just got renamed to the DV-4. Anyway, they were making a bunch of changes with the model names there toward the end of Westerly, I guess.

 

[adorshki]

Another thing worth maybe keeping in mind, or considering, is apart from them being from two different makers, that the body sizes themselves may be different as well. I'm not super well-versed in Taylor's & their terminology, but is that something more of the Grand Auditorium, variety (as opposed to Dreadnaught)?

Yes, 314's are GA bodies. Methinks Cordoba has opted to abandon that market to Taylor. After Guild invented it.
Oh the humanity!!!

 

[adorshki]

@adorshki, good catch. DV-4 looks to have entered the line up in 1999, and it looks like the DV-6 went away.

To be fair, you were thrown off by @CHC19672024 's comment that he believed the DV4 was released in '96. Since that was my first Guild catalog, I knew better.

Funny story, though, when I first joined up all those years ago, I remember @plaidseason mentioning he had a DV4. Since I'd never heard of it at the time, even after lurking for a couple of years, I thought he must be be mistaken. When I finally discovered it actually existed, I always remembered Plaidseason, and I'm glad to see he's still posting to finally see my "confession" . Plaid's creds are good as far as I'm concerned, now.

I don't know if I've got it straight, but it looks like the DV-6 just got renamed to the DV-4. Anyway, they were making a bunch of changes with the model names there toward the end of Westerly, I guess.

The DV-6 had a chesterfield, gold hardware, and upgrade binding and rosette and for sure the shaved braces which aren't mentioned for the DV-4. (Although it might have actually got them). So don't think they renamed the DV-6. Just tried to get a little more economy out of the flat-back 'hog platform, I think.

My personal hypothesis over the years is that they tried the DV25 (flatback) and it still didn't get any traction. The DV-6 was already filling the D40's slot and would have been redundant with the DV25, but the DV-6 was like a D40 on steroids at the time.

I think they got smart and brought back the D40 in '00, and the DV's-4,-6, and -25 were gone (until the Tacoma revival of the 4 & 6, as MIM models). I suspect they put all the DV-6 know-how into that last Westerly era D40 (Note the shaved braces in description, for example).

It even had a snakehead headstock, first and only time for the D40, and carried over into very early Corona:

 

[CHC19672024]

To be fair, you were thrown off by @CHC19672024 's comment that he believed the DV4 was released in '96. Since that was my first Guild catalog, I knew better.

Funny story, though, when I first joined up all those years ago, I remember @plaidseason mentioning he had a DV4. Since I'd never heard of it at the time, even after lurking for a couple of years, I thought he must be be mistaken. When I finally discovered it actually existed, I always remembered Plaidseason, and I'm glad to see he's still posting to finally see my "confession" . Plaid's creds are good as far as I'm concerned, now.



The DV-6 had a chesterfield, gold hardware, and upgrade binding and rosette and for sure the shaved braces which aren't mentioned for the DV-4. (Although it might have actually got them). So don't think they renamed the DV-6. Just tried to get a little more economy out of the flat-back 'hog platform, I think.

My personal hypothesis over the years is that they tried the DV25 (flatback) and it still didn't get any traction. The DV-6 was already filling the D40's slot and would have been redundant with the DV25, but the DV-6 was like a D40 on steroids at the time.

I think they got smart and brought back the D40 in '00, and the DV's-4,-6, and -25 were gone (until the Tacoma revival of the 4 & 6, as MIM models). I suspect they put all the DV-6 know-how into that last Westerly era D40 (Note the shaved braces in description, for example).

It even had a snakehead headstock, first and only time for the D40, and carried over into very early Corona:

With every post I become more interested in these Westerly DV 4's and 6's. Adorshki, when you say "but the DV-6 was like a D40 on steroids at the time." I want to know more. I don't know the models and specs or years at all and I am sponging up info at a fast rate thanks to the great people on this site.

I am not a fan of adornments, mostly tone, playability, and aesthetically plain vintage dreads that look rough and sound amazing. So the idea that a there is a entry level model that many people don't know much about that has a sound that competes with the flagship D40 is an appealing story, if it is true.

 

[chazmo]

CHC, if you're not into adornments, then a '90s Westerly DV-6 seems like a good target for you. You might also look for a DV-4 (which is also mahogany) from Tacoma or Ensenada. These are (I think) Guild's plainest mahogany dreads. Some of them even have really "raw" hand-rubbed finishes.

A D-40 is also a wonderful instrument, CHC, although I wouldn't call it Guild's flagship.

Final comment, a D-25 from the Westerly-era was perhaps Guild's best selling dreadnought. Almost all of these (except for the early ones) have arched-mahogany backs. They too are awesome guitars.

 

[plaidseason]

My formula would be:
D4 = D25 (with more austerity)
D6 and DV6 = D40 more or less
DV4/DV25 = D35 more or less

I've long said, the DV6 was the sleeper of all Westerly acoustics. An incredible value.

 

[adorshki]

With every post I become more interested in these Westerly DV 4's and 6's. Adorshki, when you say "but the DV-6 was like a D40 on steroids at the time." I want to know more. I don't know the models and specs or years at all and I am sponging up info at a fast rate thanks to the great people on this site.

Check that 3rd pic in my post, #15 above. The verbiage related to DV's is the most comprehensive they ever put into lit, as far as I've seen. The main points were the sanded sides (tops were not mentioned, I think now maybe because they planed 'em well enough that they could concentrate on bracing), AA tops (and their AA was as good as others AAA in a lot of cases, thanks to this guy, Willie Fritscher:

BTW, in case the pics I'm posting are hard to see, here's a link to the appropriate catalogs on GAD's site:
Willie Fritscher:
https://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/07/28/guild-gallery-catalog-1999-july-december/
DV6 and DV-52 "DV" specs:
https://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/07/26/guild-gallery-catalog-1997-1998/

Something else to bear in mind is that we know there are some errors in the catalogs. So simply because a model isn't shown with a spec like shaved braces doesn't mean it might not have actually received 'em at some point, particularly on the mid-grade instruments.
However, the "4"'s place as the ultimate no-frills 'hog dread makes me suspect they never got 'em.

I am not a fan of adornments, mostly tone, playability, and aesthetically plain vintage dreads that look rough and sound amazing.

Guild's bread-and-butter market.

So the idea that a there is a entry level model that many people don't know much about that has a sound that competes with the flagship D40 is an appealing story, if it is true.

DV-6 didn't just compete with the D40, it replaced it for several years starting as the D6 ca '92. Also they'd be considered mid-grade instruments, equal to a D50 but for 'hog lovers. But still fantastic values due to being relatively under-recognized.

Note after D40 was revived it also always showed shaved braces for example, whereas it never did before. (Again, not to say it didn't get 'em, sometimes at least but I'd be surprised, like I was about the D26, a D25 variant run.)

 

[CHC19672024]

CHC, if you're not into adornments, then a '90s Westerly DV-6 seems like a good target for you. You might also look for a DV-4 (which is also mahogany) from Tacoma or Ensenada. These are (I think) Guild's plainest mahogany dreads. Some of them even have really "raw" hand-rubbed finishes.

A D-40 is also a wonderful instrument, CHC, although I wouldn't call it Guild's flagship.

Final comment, a D-25 from the Westerly-era was perhaps Guild's best selling dreadnought. Almost all of these (except for the early ones) have arched-mahogany backs. They too are awesome guitars.

I have not researched the consensus on the Westerly vs Tacoma vs Mexico made Guilds. Mine is a Westerly and that is the only one I have experience with at this time.

 

[adorshki]

I have not researched the consensus on the Westerly vs Tacoma vs Mexico made Guilds. Mine is a Westerly and that is the only one I have experience with at this time.

The Tacoma era DV-4 and DV-6 were MIM instruments.

I don't like to "bash" imports on general principle, but let's just say I can recall 3 less-than-overwhelmed owner reports of MIM Guilds, but nary a one about Westerly's builds of those models. Suspect they just didn't put the hand-fitting into 'em that US factories did.

 

[chazmo]

The Tacoma era DV-4 and DV-6 were MIM instruments.

I don't like to "bash" imports on general principle, but let's just say I can recall 3 less-than-overwhelmed owner reports of MIM Guilds, but nary a one about Westerly's builds of those models. Suspect they just didn't put the hand-fitting into 'em that US factories did.

No, that's wrong. Tacoma built DV-4 and DV-6 until the move to New Hartford, at which point the DV-4 and DV-6 were made in Ensenada.

 

[davenumber2]

No, that's wrong. Tacoma built DV-4 and DV-6 until the move to New Hartford, at which point the DV-4 and DV-6 were made in Ensenada.

Yes. I had a DV4 that was made in Tacoma. It was a lovely guitar.

 

[kostask]

Strictly from memory, there was a DV-52 in rosewood, and a DV-6 in mahogany. The DV-52 was discontinued sometime in the early 2000s. The DV-6 then became a rosewood dread, and the DV-4 was introduced as a mahogany dread. I think the rosewood DV-6 and the mahogany DV-4 started in Tacoma, but were later produced in Mexico. My DV-6(1997) is a Westerly, as was my DV-52 (1993/1994). The DV-52 had a herringbone rosette, the DV-6 has a MOP or shell rosette.

 

[adorshki]

Strictly from memory, there was a DV-52 in rosewood, and a DV-6 in mahogany. The DV-52 was discontinued sometime in the early 2000s. The DV-6 then became a rosewood dread, and the DV-4 was introduced as a mahogany dread. I think the rosewood DV-6 and the mahogany DV-4 started in Tacoma, but were later produced in Mexico. My DV-6(1997) is a Westerly, as was my DV-52 (1993/1994). The DV-52 had a herringbone rosette, the DV-6 has a MOP or shell rosette.

DV52 was discontinued in Corona. I thought the Tacoma DV's were MIM as well, but apparently am mis-remembering a previous discussion about 'em.

 

[midnightright]

I have played 3 DV-6's from Westerly, R. I. (all mid '90s). Two of which I'd owned, fantastic & of the HG (or high gloss - finish) variety... the other, a satin finished version: for whatever reason, in the store at a major market (reputable shop) on that given day, sounded dull and as in lifeless and uninspired. For whatever reason (I'm guessing it wasn't the difference in finish). At that time it was apx. 15 yrs. old ~give or take..

 

[plaidseason]

I have played 3 DV-6's from Westerly, R. I. (all mid '90s). Two of which I'd owned, fantastic & of the HG (or high gloss - finish) variety... the other, a satin finished version: for whatever reason, in the store at a major market (reputable shop) on that given day, sounded dull and as in lifeless and uninspired. For whatever reason (I'm guessing it wasn't the difference in finish). At that time it was apx. 15 yrs. old ~give or take..

That's why I always say "guitars will surprise you." For years I didn't find a $1100-1300 (00/000, short scale) guitar better than my $500 ($180 used) Simon & Patrick folk. It's only my recently purchased for $1300 Guild M40 that finally fit the bill.

I think the Westerly DV52s and DV6s are mostly great, with some being incredible to transcendent, some average, and a few below the Mendoza line.

 

[adorshki]

With every post I become more interested in these Westerly DV 4's and 6's. Adorshki, when you say "but the DV-6 was like a D40 on steroids at the time." I want to know more. I don't know the models and specs or years at all and I am sponging up info at a fast rate thanks to the great people on this site.

I am not a fan of adornments, mostly tone, playability, and aesthetically plain vintage dreads that look rough and sound amazing. So the idea that a there is a entry level model that many people don't know much about that has a sound that competes with the flagship D40 is an appealing story, if it is true.

Up now on EekBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2666683076...GFX8UJ+an26lJfqQ1Dxjvp5NS+E=|tkp:BFBM3szNpcFj