Customer service, or not...happens everywhere...

[Ravon]

Tom, I've always heard the worst tippers are the ones who can most afford it and the best are the plain working joe's. Much truth to that? I worked in a hospital for several years and can tell you from experience, the most demanding patients are the ones that either have all the money or the ones that have absolutely no money.

 

[Scratch]

It's not that I'm a diner hero; just that it has been my personal policy since I gained financial stability, that unless the service is 'really bad', I don't tip less than 20% of the bill. I guess it is a matter of realizing I have been blessed in my life, and although some may consider it corny, I strongly believe we should treat others as we would desire to be treated.

I have a pretty good read on folks who work hard. A strong work ethic almost always reflects their positive, customer service attitude. I like to observe the 'go-getters' as we chat, awaiting our meals; they're easy to spot. In fact, I hired a couple and trained them to learn new skills. They've gone on to become successful and through the years have stayed in touch to let me know how they are doing. The gratuity I've received is their gratitude.

Never left a table without leaving at least something, figuring anyone can be having a bad day, although the tip may be just 10%; usually reflective of the service received.

Now 'enjoying' retirement in a lousy economy, we simply don't eat out as much, but when we do, the Scratch 20% rule remains in effect.

 

[Bikerdoc]

I gotta agree with Scratch; times are a good deal tougher for some folks than for me. So, I tend to be a decent tipper for the most part. The only time I really get upset is if I'm sitting there for longer than 10 minutes before someone asks, "Can I get you somethinng to drink?". I don't mind waiting for that second cup when I look around and see how busy the place is, but ya needs to be offering me that first come before I turn to stone at the table. :wink: Never could quite understand why the first cup doesn't come with a small coffee decanter though. This would certainly give the server a bit of a break.

I am increasingly more impatient with just about everything so it's rare that we eat out.

Peace

 

[davismanLV]

There are always gonna be cheap people and a$$holes, but I have to say that most people are very nice and fairly polite. I am surprised at the amount of people who were never taught basic courtesy, or are just too awkward for words.

@ frono, the word does need to be spread on the discount thing. Always tip on the original amount. The restaurant or company is offering a discount for food. The service is a totally different thing. Tip on the original amount before any discounts or coupons or deals, so bless you for that!!

@ Ken, 20% is always seen as a very nice tip. Especially when you consider the previously mentioned 8.5% that goes to other people, bussers, food runners, bartenders, and hosts. That leaves 11.5% for the server. No problem with that. I'm sure your regular servers love you and would do backflips for you if necessary.

@ Bikerdoc, with me it's a glass of red wine. Slap one of those in my hands and I become WAY MORE PATIENT, than I am with an empty hand!!

@ Ravon, we have a perception that this is the case, but it's difficult to prove because the amount of someones wealth is not always visible. However, we do cringe when someone whips out an American Express Black Card....that usually indicates a lousy tip is coming. Not always, but in a higher percentage of the time over regular cards.

We serve this really nice, highly-filtered water, Natura water (http://www.naturawater.com/), and we used to charge for it. 50 cents a person for all you can drink tasty water. It was a bad idea, we don't do it any more. That was not a decision the servers made. We were told to do it, and that was that. Many people didn't like the charge and if they complained, we'd take it off the bill. No problem. However, some people got very upset by it, and took it out on the server by tipping them lousy as if they had something to do with it. Not fun.

I do recall a guy taking his three guests to dinner. They had a lovely time and everyone seemed in a good mood and the guy went to pay the bill (with his American Express Black Card) and saw the $2.00 charge for four waters. (This is significantly less than if they'd have ordered bottled water plus it was a bottomless caraffe) He threw a fit and started yelling at me and carrying on and telling me how horrible it was and HOW DARE I..... I told him I'd take it off the bill, but by then he'd made everyone VERY uncomfortable and embarrassed and ruined the whole experience. I mean, REALLY?? Black American Express Card and throwing a hissy fit about the water charge? Of course what I wanted to do was to just reach into my pocket and throw two dollars onto the table and say, "Here you go.... if you need a couple of bucks, they're yours!" The point being to EMBARRASS him in front of his guests, who were embarrassed to death. But I can't do that....

Of course, in keeping with the whole Black American Express Card thing, he left a crappy tip then because.... it was all MY fault.

Also, verbal tips are the kiss of death. Anytime someone tells you over and OVER how great the service was and what a wonderful job you did with the meal and how awesome your suggestions were and on and on..... get ready for a pretty lousy tip. Somehow they think I can pay my extremely high power bill with their verbosity. :evil:

Ravon, what you say is true in that, it's usually the quiet, polite and unassuming customers who are the best tippers. And if they SAY that they're a great tipper (up front, trying to get more attention or because they're unusually high-maintenance) you can pretty much assume the opposite.

The bottom line for me is, I can pretty much put up with ANYTHING if you throw enough money at me. :lol:

 

[killdeer43]

Classic scene about tipping from Reservoir Dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-qV9wVGb38

Buscemi at his whiny best. :lol:

Joe

 

[taabru45]

On my road to recovery from breaking my back a few years ago I was of course very limited in most activities, couldn't do anything for very long....However I was lucky enough to still be able to drive...so my survival literally was hinging on the few hundred dollars I could make delivering pizza, along with my pittance disability pension...Same old story...sometimes we'd accept addresses up to 5 miles away each way....want to figure out how much of the maintainence, gas etc gets covered with a $2 tip....as a driver not too often we saw more than 10%...and it costs money everytime you turn the key...Steffan

 

[fronobulax]

On my road to recovery from breaking my back a few years ago I was of course very limited in most activities, couldn't do anything for very long....However I was lucky enough to still be able to drive...so my survival literally was hinging on the few hundred dollars I could make delivering pizza, along with my pittance disability pension...Same old story...sometimes we'd accept addresses up to 5 miles away each way....want to figure out how much of the maintainence, gas etc gets covered with a $2 tip....as a driver not too often we saw more than 10%...and it costs money everytime you turn the key...Steffan

<veer>You mean we're supposed to tip the pizza delivery person? Who gets that mandatory delivery service charge, then?</veer>

:lol: :lol:

 

[taabru45]

Good question...not the driver...minimum wage or less plus tips was the standard (we use our own car and pay all our own costs) ....when the gas prices were really high for a while they threw in $1 per delivery for gas....now I see that some places pay a flat $4 per delivery, and there days there are lots of slow nights....Steffan

 

[Ian]

Gee, this has been really interesting. We dont have tipping as a rule in NZ, I wasnt very aware of it when wqe travelled to the UK or France either.... Here in NZ if you went out for a meal with friends to a nice restaurant you might leave a little extra on the table for the person that served you, but there's no way it would be anything like 10 or 20% of the bill.... Here we would be expecting that the staff would be paid at least minimum wage (it's illegal to pay less), and therefore any tip left would be just that: a little extra for outstanding service, not an expectation to make up the wages.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

...We don't have tipping as a rule in NZ...Here we would be expecting that the staff would be paid at least minimum wage (it's illegal to pay less), and therefore any tip left would be just that: a little extra for outstanding service, not an expectation to make up the wages.

Ian, NZ is a very progressive country.

In the USA, in a feat of greedy brilliance, the restaurant industry determined it could better sell to a (just as greedy) consumer base with the marketing notion that the food prices would be kept to a minimum by paying the wait staff less than minimum wage, and tying their income to their performance. On a fateful day, long ago, someone must have been thinking, 'Hey, if it can work for sweatshops...'

O'er the years I have attended oh so many a meal with folks who think they can protest such an outrage by simply *not tipping*.

I have explained for decades that the only person you are punishing by such a maneuver is the server, as the restaurant receives it's profits when you pay your bill in full (sans coupons, discounts, theft, etc). For the most part the conversion attempt falls on deaf ears. In addition to a general lack of knowledge of how wait staff are paid, there is a frightening disconnect in the understanding of how the system has been allowed to operate and what to do about changing it.

In my youth I thought a more clever approach might be to tip 30% or 40% and short the bill. I tried it a couple of times, unsuccessfully, only to discover the difference ended up coming out of the server's tips. :!:

Christopher

 

[Steelpickin']

Tom, I've always heard the worst tippers are the ones who can most afford it and the best are the plain working joe's. Much truth to that? I worked in a hospital for several years and can tell you from experience, the most demanding patients are the ones that either have all the money or the ones that have absolutely no money.

Yep!! many years ago my ex worked in a swanky Hotel not far from here. Bob Hope was in town doing a couple of shows. The wife did his first room service and he liked her so much he asked for her again and agan over his three day stay. The hotel even called her in on her day off because "Bob Hope" had asked for her!...normally the hotel attached a automatic tip on to the bill for room service but wavied it in this case because they were "star struck" and sure of a great tip in the end!!....in the end there was no tip...nadda!...on the other hand, the band Cheap Trick stayed there not long after and Judy Collins as well...both left her a one hundred dollar bill. Guess it only goes to show! :shock:

 

[bluesypicky]

Gee, this has been really interesting. We dont have tipping as a rule in NZ, I wasnt very aware of it when wqe travelled to the UK or France either.... Here in NZ if you went out for a meal with friends to a nice restaurant you might leave a little extra on the table for the person that served you, but there's no way it would be anything like 10 or 20% of the bill.... Here we would be expecting that the staff would be paid at least minimum wage (it's illegal to pay less), and therefore any tip left would be just that: a little extra for outstanding service, not an expectation to make up the wages.

Hi Ian,
Yes, moving to the US is a culture shock when coming from other countries, sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worst, as well explained by Christopher.
Even though, I have adapted to that tipping culture, (after all, I made the choice to live here and I'm not going to penalize these folks making a living this way because I disagree with the standard) I am still uncomfortable with it. My idea of a "civilized" society, doesn't include having people's wages determined by the level of charity of others, (or at least not to the degree where it can make a difference between your being able or not, to pay your bills at the end of the month) which is, to a degree, depending on panhandling. Because let's call a cat a cat: There is one short step between making a living out of tips, and standing on a street corner with a hand written sign asking for help, the main difference being that you actually do something for your tips obviously. (btw, do waiters/waitresses even get health insurance with their jobs?)
What's worst is when you go get a haircut, you have to leave a tip too. Why? Are they also paid $4/hr and depend on customers' generosity to make a living?
What's next? Tipping the gal who let's you in at the doctor's office, exchange pleasantries with you and takes your blood pressure before you get to see the doctor? Tipping the walmart cashier because she took the time to total your purchases and placed them in bags for you?...
Just sayin'....

 

[davismanLV]

Pascal, I couldn't agree more. If they'd just charge more for the food and beverage, and then give the servers a decent wage it would work fine. But alas, they can make more profit if they rely on this "tipping" custom. However.... it IS the custom.

@ Ian, that's why servers recoil in horror when we hear your lovely accent at our tables. Most are ingnorant of tipping customs in this country, and it's probably going to cost me money for you to eat at my table because of poor tipping. Let's say your bill is $100 for the meal and you pay that and throw $5 on as a gratuity (horrific tip, but it happens all the time with people from NZ and other foreign countries). I have to tip out 8.5%, or $8.50 on the sale. So it costs me $3.50 for you to eat at my table. Am I resentful about that? HELL YES!!! Depending on the service and situation, I'm not gonna leave less than $20 for a bill that size and probably if the server went the extra mile or was exceptionally helpful and personable, more like $25 to $30. Of course, I get treated like ROYALTY when I go out and I get more comps and free stuff than you can imagine. Tipping well actually SAVES me money!

Paying a decent wage and putting a stop to tipping would eliminate any horror or bad service because, I'd be guaranteed my money. My friend Karen, who is a server, is originally from Paris, France. She has a lovely accent. She also works in the industry. She's a citizen of the US and she lives here in Las Vegas. When she goes out to eat, she many times gets LOUSY SERVICE because people hear the accent and think, "Oh SHIT, they're not gonna tip me!"

It's a sad situation all around. Any time I've traveled abroad or to foreign countries, I ALWAYS made sure I knew what the customs were so I wouldn't offend. This is not the case with all people, however. I think they should show a short film on the plane over..... let people know what's expected.

Then I'd hear the lovely accent and think, "Oh YAY!! Foreigners!! What fun...." :roll:

@ Steelpickin', I've heard that Bob Hope was one of the cheapest bastards in the world!!

 

[bluesypicky]

However.... it IS the custom.

And I totally respect that, which is why I said:

I have adapted to that tipping culture, (after all, I made the choice to live here and I'm not going to penalize these folks making a living this way because I disagree with the standard)

@ Ian, Paying a decent wage and putting a stop to tipping would eliminate any horror or bad service because, I'd be guaranteed my money. My friend Karen, who is a server, is originally from Paris, France. She has a lovely accent. She also works in the industry. She's a citizen of the US and she lives here in Las Vegas. When she goes out to eat, she many times gets LOUSY SERVICE because people hear the accent and think, "Oh SHIT, they're not gonna tip me!"

Which is why in many places largely frequented by International visitors, tips ARE included (as in Miami Beach for example), and I'm a bit surprised Vegas didn't kick in on that yet.... ?
You know the good ol' motto right? It's the Dollar that drives everything, including customs... So in a global economy, if your business revenue is subjected enough to an International clientele with other customs, I say it's your turn to adapt... Include the tip in your prices and make everybody happy!:wink:
Ah... the culture clash! :?

 

[davismanLV]

Which is why in many places largely frequented by International visitors, tips ARE included (as in Miami Beach for example), and I'm a bit surprised Vegas didn't kick in on that yet.... ? You know the good ol' motto right? It's the Dollar that drives everything, including customs... So in a global economy, if your business revenue is subjected enough to an International clientele with other customs, I say it's your turn to adapt... :wink:
Ah... the culture clash! :?

Well, servers and other tipped employees are totally in favor of that policy. However, it is not up to us. The best we can hope for is that our foreign friends travel in groups of 6 or more..... we autograt for large parties. Some places it's 8 or more.

It has to be across the board, however, because we can't be seen to be singling people out. There have been lawsuits filed because of gratuity randomly added to the checks of African-Americans because of the stereotype of them not tipping well. It has happened. :roll:

Pascal, I understood you completely... I didn't think you were non-compliant with the custom. And I'm in total agreement. :wink: :wink:

 

[bluesypicky]

Well, servers and other tipped employees are totally in favor of that policy. However, it is not up to us.

Oh I didn't know that... so you guys are regulated and you're not individually able to set the menu rates as you want?

Also, since you're obviously in the industry, and to satisfy my curiosity, are waiters/waitresses covered with health insurance with their jobs, or are they considered "independant contractors" and have to get private insurance?

Pascal, I understood you completely... I didn't think you were non-compliant with the custom. And I'm in total agreement. :wink: :wink:

I never for a second doubted that brother, this is just a friendly conversation, and I agree that we are in agreement on the bottom line here.

 

[fronobulax]

What's worst is when you go get a haircut, you have to leave a tip too. Why? Are they also paid $4/hr and depend on customers' generosity to make a living?

FWIW my barber works in a "salon". Turns out that she gets no salary from them and actually pays rent. She's effectively an independent contractor and all that ends up in her pocket is what she charges for a haircut plus what she gets tipped after she pays for rent and supplies. Yes, she can set her own prices but she is constrained by what the market will bear.

 

[ladytexan]

Deleted

 

[bluesypicky]

FWIW my barber works in a "salon". Turns out that she gets no salary from them and actually pays rent. She's effectively an independent contractor and all that ends up in her pocket is what she charges for a haircut plus what she gets tipped after she pays for rent and supplies. Yes, she can set her own prices but she is constrained by what the market will bear.

Hi Fro!
I understand the independant contractor status, and this can work very well in some trades, and why not in the hair cutting business, but again: Why is there to be a tip needed to make it work?
When I go get my haircut at a National chain that shall remain nameless, there is a board on the wall with the different cuts rates on it. But when you get the bill you have to fil out the "Tip" box before making the payment..... It usually takes between 15 and 20 mns to cut my hair, and costs $15 (according to the rate chart), I understand they have to clear the overheads, but I'm far from this level of pay at my current job.
If in order to make a decent living, your barber has to rely on tips added to whatever rates are in effect, than the system is broken in my book.
Do you add a tip to the plumber's bill after he fixes a leaky faucet for you?
What's the difference? just another trade right?
But hey, if it works well enough for these folks not to raise hell about it, then who am I to speak about it?...
Again, just sayin'... :|

 

[bluesypicky]

P.S. Having worked and lived in many countries, when I would offer a tip in a non-tipping culture, there was always a smile and (usually) the following comment:
"That's what we love about Americans.....their generosity." So, not always a bad thing..... n'est pas?

Hey Toni,
I'm certainly not arguing that... who doesn't smile when being handed money? The only thing I'm discussing here is how the money flows.... but that's murky waters so I won't get too deep in. :mrgreen:
Once more: If the first interested ones like this system, so be it, I learned tipping, I can deal with it, while disagreeing with it as a "wages system", it just takes a while to us non born Americans, to get used to never seeing the price displayed, as the amount of money you will actually have to pay. Same goes in stores actually, where prices on tags do not include taxes. Just a different approach.