Bringing a Starfire back to life.

[Dardplay]

Hello there. I got hold of a Starfire which is in need of some attention. That might be putting it lightly. But the guitar is basically only a chassis. I don't know any history of it. It was one of those estate kind of deals. So I don't know if it was used as a parts donor, or if it was on its way to an upgrade or clean and the body lost contact with the rest. But the price was right, I liked how it felt in the hand and how it looks, and I always wanted a Guild. Since I happened to be looking for this type of guitar, I bought it.

It's a Guild Starfire 4. One of the older ones, with the harp tailpiece and the master volume control. It's only the body and a cracked tailpiece. It seems it had been sitting this way for some time. It's dirty, gunky and need a good deep clean. So no tuners, no pickups, no electronics. I did a cleaning test on a small part of the body and it seems it will look just fine after a good clean and a buff. Body is not damaged, neck is straight. Everything is fine structurally speaking.

I have already had a look around and parts don't seem exactly readily available. But I'm not worried about keeping it 100% original, matching years etc. I just want to get it to be playable. At least for now.

Pickups seem to be one of the sticking points. I think they came with HB1s? They don't show up often and when they do they cost a bit. I know there are HB1 reissues. No idea if they fit or sound as good. Another option which I most likely would prefer over a reissue HB1 would be a De Armond. Somebody had a guitar with them and it sounded absolutely stunning! Despite being humbuckers by the looks and size of them, they sounded different in some scale. Again no idea if they would fit. Seems the same size as humbuckers so maybe. Haven't seen one for years, so memory might be failing. I checked and they seem to be rare as well. But maybe a little easier to find than HB1s and also better priced. Although maybe not so different in that last point. From the sound side, a toss really. HB1s seem quite Gibson like? The De Armonds have a different mojo somehow. Quite like it. But would be happy with either one. Which ever I could get my hands on first.

The next hard to get would be the tailpiece it seems. I know the new ones have a version with the harp. But I have no idea if it would fit. I guess if the distances do, holes can be customized. As long as the piece cover the holes on the body.

Electronics will probably be the easiest. I don't even need to follow any original wiring. But did they have 50's wiring? I would guess not and just your now conventional way.

Tuners, it seems they came with Grovers? I guess there will be no problems there.

I'm really looking forward to seeing this through. It has a bit of a dog rescue feel to it. She deserves a second life and some enjoyment playing again. I'm hoping I will have the chance to exchange some ideas here throughout the process and get her up and running as soon as possible. Thank you.

 

[SFIV1967]

Send us pictures and the serial number and also a picture of the internal label and we can tell you much more about the history and what your guitar would have looked like when they came from the factory. You can attach pictures right here with copy and paste and you can zoom the to an acceptable viewing size.

Ralf

 

[Dardplay]

Thank you for the swift reply. To be completely honest, she is just not picture ready yet. So out of respect, I want to leave the reveal for a better time.

I'm not really worried about the history of the guitar. Originality is also not the priority. I know I will most likely not return her to the original condition anyways. At least not now. The priority is getting her playing again as soon as possible.

So the process is more about seeing what could go in and do the job. I also see this as the perfect mod platform opportunity. I will not go crazy and butcher the guitar. But why not build her up to be what I want her to be instead of what she was? There is no past, only the future.

 

[chazmo]

Welcome aboard, Dardplay. You definitely are in the right place to discuss this.. But...

But why not build her up to be what I want her to be instead of what she was? There is no past, only the future.

... just be aware that when you start talking about the past and older guilds, you will hit a nerve when you say things like that. I.e., the comment that I quoted above will raise some ire.

Having said that, it sounds like you bought a shell that had already been parted out, and thus you are clearly not responsible for hacking apart an original Guild. That is real heresy around LTG, though a few members disagree. Whoever messed with your Starfire is the real culprit.

So -- my opinion only -- sure!!!! Have at it! Anything you do will be better than letting a great carcass rot as a husk. If you have to tear into the body for some reason, it's probably justified for you to make it something you'll play and enjoy. And as for going for original parts, you could do that you know as there's a lot available from our members, but it requires patience, and it sounds like you want to make this things "yours."

Good luck! And, again, welcome aboard!

 

[hansmoust]

To be completely honest, she is just not picture ready yet. So out of respect, I want to leave the reveal for a better time.

Hello Dardplay,

Welcome! A 'Starfire 4 with a master volume' covers a really long period. If you want us to think with you, at least give us the serial number so we have a guideline to think about what parts would work and what would not!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[GAD]

Hello Dardplay,

Welcome! A 'Starfire 4 with a master volume' covers a really long period. If you want us to think with you, at least give us the serial number so we have a guideline to think about what parts would work and what would not!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

And by “really long period” we’re talking decades.

 

[Dardplay]

Welcome aboard, Dardplay. You definitely are in the right place to discuss this.. But...



... just be aware that when you start talking about the past and older guilds, you will hit a nerve when you say things like that. I.e., the comment that I quoted above will raise some ire.

Having said that, it sounds like you bought a shell that had already been parted out, and thus you are clearly not responsible for hacking apart an original Guild. That is real heresy around LTG, though a few members disagree. Whoever messed with your Starfire is the real culprit.

So -- my opinion only -- sure!!!! Have at it! Anything you do will be better than letting a great carcass rot as a husk. If you have to tear into the body for some reason, it's probably justified for you to make it something you'll play and enjoy. And as for going for original parts, you could do that you know as there's a lot available from our members, but it requires patience, and it sounds like you want to make this things "yours."

Good luck! And, again, welcome aboard!

Hey Chazmo. Thanks for the support. I have my conscience fully free. My take is, if I had not bought it, its destiny was probably to become firewood. I didn't buy it from guitar people or anybody who cared. Having said that, I don't think I have it in me to mod a fully original vintage guitar, which is in normal usable condition. I would just look for something else if modding was my main drive. The only exception is pickups. These have always been replaceable and replaced in any guitar of any age. But it's an easily reversible mod, if you stay with the same size.
Plus, if I easily find all original parts, I have no problem in going with that. But I have already looked and I just don't want to wait months for unicorns.

As is though, I don't think I will be doing anything which needs to cut into the body. I did think about adding something like a varitone. But to be honest, I don't think I will. So at worse it seems it will be non original hardware, which I might use as place holders till I find something better or the originals. Or might keep because I like it. But as far as I am envisioning it, it seems it will be all reversible.

 

[GAD]

If it was build for HB1s there are (so far as I’m aware) no other pickups the same size.

That said, “regular” pickups will fit with an adapter if you can find HB1 rings, but I’d bet HB1 rings alone are even harder to find than HB1s.

 

[Dardplay]

Hello Dardplay,

Welcome! A 'Starfire 4 with a master volume' covers a really long period. If you want us to think with you, at least give us the serial number so we have a guideline to think about what parts would work and what would not!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Hello Hans. Thanks for the welcome. Is it supposed to be on the headstock like Gibsons or inside somewhere? Because I did look. But the headstock has nothing. Only the Guild name and crest. Nothing to be read on the back at least. It is in poor condition. Makes you wonder if it has been used a shovel. But it seems to be mainly with the finish and dirt and gunk. Inside I have not had the guts to look yet. It is stuffed with...stuff...afraid of finding out what it is, dead or alive. Felt for sure. The guitar is not home but in storage. It smells. Of old stuff or old attic.

But I have gone online trying to pinpoint what it is, plus talked to a few people. My guess is that it's a 1980 or 1981. Or a 1990's which has been modded. It has a harp tail, master volume and dot fretboard inlays. As far I could tell by spending a lot of time looking through old reverb sales and other Starfire for sale adds, this rules out 1970's, which seems to have block inlays. And it's definitely not one of the early ones. I know how 60's guitars feel. It doesn't have that light and woody mojo going. The finish looks too good still as well. Although not always an indication. Plus the neck is not thin, which I heard the early ones had. I have held a few guitars in my life. From vintage Gibson and Fenders to other 60's exotica such as Hofner, Framus, Kay and Harmony. This is not from that time. What disqualifies it from being a 90s is the master volume and harp. Not that it couldn't have been added. But the F-holes also seem off. I think it looks identical to the 1980 and 1981 examples I found online.

As for publishing the serial. I'm one of those skeptical people who hold their cards pretty close to their chest when online. And the serial number of my guitars are part of the personal lot I will not share in a forum, along with the VIN of my car, photos of my family, bank and card numbers, business info or my wife's number. I don't even put the serial number or photos of it when I sell a guitar. Although I will give to a potential buyer in private if asked. Have not sold one for years though. I normally only buy keepers and I get emotionally attached to the things.

Next step will be to clean it. It will take more than some elbow grease for sure. But who knows. Maybe I find parts lost inside. Nothing rattles though. It seems to have been stuffed for some purpose.

I tried looking at the Guild site to see if they would sell me a new set of pickups and harp tail but I find no parts page. I have a few searches set on Ebay and other sites but no hits so far. Once I clean it I will probably order some Grover tuners. Will feel good to start somewhere and take a first step.

 

[Dardplay]

If it was build for HB1s there are (so far as I’m aware) no other pickups the same size.

That said, “regular” pickups will fit with an adapter if you can find HB1 rings, but I’d bet HB1 rings alone are even harder to find than HB1s.

Thanks for the tip. As long as it's downsizing, I have made alu rings before. Like an adapter sort of thing. Anodize it black and it actually looked the part. But so the reissue HB1s are smaller than the vintage stuff? What about the De Armonds? I don't mean the 2K and 2000. I mean the humbucker types.

 

[GAD]

Without the SN we can’t age it, but if you post a pic of it we can determine a lot by it’s shape, depth, etc.

 

[GAD]

Thanks for the tip. As long as it's downsizing, I have made alu rings before. Like an adapter sort of thing. Anodize it black and it actually looked the part. But so the reissue HB1s are smaller than the vintage stuff? What about the De Armonds? I don't mean the 2K and 2000. I mean the humbucker types.

Reissue HB1s are the same size. Reissue HB2s are “regular” size.

Guild Full-Sized HB1 and SD1 Pickup Variations | GAD's Ramblings

One of the questions I see on the guitar forums quite a bit is, “What kind of pickups does this Guild guitar have?” Since I’ve posted in many of these threads, I seem to get a lot of emails with the same question. I thought that I might write up a quick summary of the …

www.gad.net

 

[Boneman]

Sounds like you need to post detailed pictures of what you have so you can get the correct advice. Maybe this or maybe that won’t cut it, let’s see what you’ve got

 

[Dardplay]

Reissue HB1s are the same size. Reissue HB2s are “regular” size.

Guild Full-Sized HB1 and SD1 Pickup Variations | GAD's Ramblings

One of the questions I see on the guitar forums quite a bit is, “What kind of pickups does this Guild guitar have?” Since I’ve posted in many of these threads, I seem to get a lot of emails with the same question. I thought that I might write up a quick summary of the …

www.gad.net

Thanks. I don't think I came across HB2 before. Guild pickups seem to be quite the confusing topic actually. I will get back to work and do some more reading. Regarding the De Armonds, looking at photos of the pickups alone they seem to be slightly narrower than HB1s. So maybe also regular sized like the HB2s?

 

[GAD]

HB2s are poorly named modern import pickups.

Note that all modern pickups and hardware are nickel while the vintage stuff is chrome.

 

[Dardplay]

Sounds like you need to post detailed pictures of what you have so you can get the correct advice. Maybe this or maybe that won’t cut it, let’s see what you’ve got

I'm willing to bet money it's a 1980 or 1981. Or somebody went out of their way to make it look like one. But let's see how she looks after the cleaning. I might post a photo once she is presentable. But by then she might already have tuners and pickups. I was just talking to couple of people with vintage Gibsons and vintage Japanese pick ups. I also just placed the order for some pots and switch. It's happening!

 

[GAD]

I'm willing to bet money it's a 1980 or 1981. Or somebody went out of their way to make it look like one. But let's see how she looks after the cleaning. I might post a photo once she is presentable. But by then she might already have tuners and pickups. I was just talking to couple of people with vintage Gibsons and vintage Japanese pick ups. I also just placed the order for some pots and switch. It's happening!

What is the fretboard material? Block or dot inlays?

 

[Dardplay]

What is the fretboard material? Block or dot inlays?

As I mentioned in my prior post, it has dot inlays, which seems to exclude it being 70's. As I'm pretty positive it's not a 60s example. This only leaves 80's and 90s. 90s seem to have lost the harp and master volume. And I couldn't find anything from 1982 till 1989 with a harp. Unless Guild had a custom shop and was doing a la carte stuff throughout. Fretboard materiel it's very dirty and soiled but seems on the darker side. Could still be rosewood. Not sure it's ebony. Somehow doesn't look that dark though.

 

[Dardplay]

Not the De Armonds I had in mind, but still vintage. And at least it is for sale. From a Gretsch. But looks like a humbucker and not your usual Filtertron. Can't say I have ever heard one in a Gretsch. Size looks to be standard.

 

[BradHK]

Is there a serial number in the back of the headstock or on the label inside the F-hole?