Bass Tech

[idealassets]

Our bass player who mostly plays a 1982 Alembic Spoiler bass showed up and out of his gig bag came a 1980's Fender Jazz bass. I noticed that you have 2 pickups and both are in the sweet spot location, no pickup at the neck. I liked the sound of this bass although this bass man plays far from a jazz style.

I like the jazz bass design. I'm just wondering what this bass's trademark sound is supposed to be, and what its mostly used for. Also wondering how most basses compare to a Ric 4003 maple body, because so far the Ric is my first choice and the jazz bass my second if I can defray the $ for one.

Sometimes we play with no bass player available, and it has been suggested to me to get into bass. I'm deciding what bass I might like, also considering that I am not that proficient on bass. The demand here is for a bass guitar that is something current which I don't mind. At one time I considered that the Guild Starfire is a nice bass but it is not the go to bass here locally in Fender/Gibson land. If I later get another Starfire it will be a Newark St so I don't have to worry about playing out with it.

Thank you,
Craig

 

[AcornHouse]

Get a Pilot!

 

[idealassets]

Get a Pilot!

Oh yes, almost forgot about those.

 

[adorshki]

I like the jazz bass design. I'm just wondering what this bass's trademark sound is supposed to be, and what its mostly used

Casady used a Jazz bass on the first 3 Airplane albums. I think that gives pretty good idea of the potential.
At the complete other end of the spectrum Jaco Pastorius used a fretless version. (my favorites are with Joni Mitchell and Weather Report)
He could make it sound like an actual stand-up (actually I think Jack came pretty close on a couple of Baxter's cuts too) and is the only electric bassist (out of only 7 bassists) ever inducted into the Downbeat Hall of Fame.
So a very versatile instrument in the right hands.

 

[mavuser]

Keep the 66 mahogany SF Bass I!

 

[mellowgerman]

I never completely warmed up to the jazz bass because I have little use for the bridge pickup position. I typically prefer neck and middle pickup positions. The standard jazz middle position pickup solo'd sounds a bit thin to my ears, especially in comparison to the precision bass split coil pickup. I have owned a few jazz basses but almost always end up installing a neck position humbucker to compensate for the thinner sounding pickups (which is sort of what Casady did with his original jazz bass, when he put a split-coil precision pickup up in the neck position). Another sort-of-remedy for the thinner sounding jazz pickups is replacing them with Dimarzio Model J pickups which are designed a lot more like a P-bass pickup, but they fit under jazz-style pickup cover.
If I was reaching for a fender, I would also go precision for the fatter neck; my favorite fender neck being the massive '57 reissue P-bass neck. Interestingly enough my 32" scale Warwick Starbass has a relatively thin neck, but it feels comfy to me... might have to do with depth or profile or perhaps the way the bass hangs when standing up.
Now I'm kind of rambling, so feel free to completely disregard the rest of my post, but if I ever had a signature model bass it would be a 32" semi-hollow body with bridge and middle single coil pickups and a humbucker in the neck position, big fat round neck, and the passive tone circuit I wired up for my current bass (volume, bass filter, treble filter, and 6 position mid filter switch)

 

[adorshki]

I have owned a few jazz basses but almost always end up installing a neck position humbucker to compensate for the thinner sounding pickups (which is sort of what Casady did with his original jazz bass, when he put a split-coil precision pickup up in the neck position).

Is that why I love his tone so much on Baxter's?
(Rhetorical question, I know it's gotta be a combination of factors, but you might remember for years I had a pet hypothesis that he actually got some of his first Starfire onto that album, especially "Spare Chaynge", the instrumental duet with Jorma. It just sounds so damn woody in places.)
That hypothesis has since been laid to rest but that's interesting tech info.

 

[mellowgerman]

can kind of see it in this photo:

here's another one:

one of my buddies and I once modified his sunburst jazz bass in this fashion as kind of a casady tribute model. it was all new components so it didn't sound exactly like casady's early tone, but it was definitely an improvement on the standard jazz bass tone (at least to our ears).

 

[mellowgerman]

this was my favorite jazz bass i ever owned. came to me as a well used American made Fender Highway 1 jazz bass with the standard setup and i modified it a bit. one of those that i wish i still had today, though i wouldn't say i regret selling it because then i probably wouldn't have my warwick starbass that has become my #1

 

[fronobulax]

Casady used a Jazz bass on the first 3 Airplane albums. I think that gives pretty good idea of the potential.
At the complete other end of the spectrum Jaco Pastorius used a fretless version. (my favorites are with Joni Mitchell and Weather Report)
He could make it sound like an actual stand-up (actually I think Jack came pretty close on a couple of Baxter's cuts too) and is the only electric bassist (out of only 7 bassists) ever inducted into the Downbeat Hall of Fame.
So a very versatile instrument in the right hands.

FWIW Jaco once played a Pilot. There is at least one Guild ad that implies an endorsement but the last time I did any research there were contradictions, inconsistencies, claims, counter-claims and different definitions of what people really mean when they say "Jaco endorsed X" and how that differs from "Jaco played X".

The standard response of a Pilot as a Guild replacement for a Fender is still a good one. With the P and J pickups there is a close approximation to either a Precision or a Jazz tone "right out of the box" and you can always invest in an upgraded pickup without having to do a lot of woodwork. While it does not have "Fender" on the headstock, being a similarly shaped solid body, those folks who think you need to have a Fender to play a particular style can't complain as loudly compared to showing up with a hollow body. You will get change from $1000 even if you overpay or really need a blueberry purple bass. $500 should get you one that has been played, but not abused, a HSC, shipping and maybe even have $50 for a visit to your tech.

And before you accept a position as a bassist, remember that the bassist is the worst guitarist in the band. If you can play guitar better than anyone else, ask them to switch to bass

 

[gilded]

I used to play a lot of Precision Basses, but over the years have come to prefer Jazz basses, both for the smaller neck and the pickups.

A friend of mine who went the Bass Institute of Technology back in the early days told me that the 2nd best Motown sound out there is a Jazz bass bridge pickup with the tone control all the way down. I think there are plenty of other sounds to be found there.

I'd find a light-weight Made in Mexico Jazz and have at it. You won't spend that much money and if the pickups don't work with your bass amp rig, you can always go get some killer upgrade pickups. I'd replace all the wire and potentiometers while you're at it. Cheap fun.

That said, my bass player uses an almost new American Standard P-Bass at it sounds Great! Of course, the Genz Benz Streamliner 900 head and his Bergantino 2x10 and/or 1x12 cabinets are fantastic for almost any bass instrument.

Good luck!

 

[Happy Face]

If you want a Jazz bas sound with a thinner Hofner-like neck profile, look for a Fender Performer Bass. I use one mostly for practice. They've been appearing on Eby pretty frequently thanks to a couple selling at higher prices.

 

[adorshki]

And before you accept a position as a bassist, remember that the bassist is the worst guitarist in the band. If you can play guitar better than anyone else, ask them to switch to bass

Not only that, it's the last stop on the long slippery slope towards becoming the drummer.
Oh waitaminnit, Craig's already been a drummer....

 

[idealassets]

Keep the 66 mahogany SF Bass I!

I might keep it. It was sold on ebay 3 days ago, but I'm still awaiting payment. I will only wait so long and then make other plans.

The Starfire bass stays home most of the time. I plan to put all my practice hours on something more common, and for playing out I'm shopping for a newly manufactured bass that is worth less, and more universally recognized.

And when I consider how much $ I have spent on gear I'm letting a few things go, whatever sells first.

 

[idealassets]

I never completely warmed up to the jazz bass because I have little use for the bridge pickup position. I typically prefer neck and middle pickup positions. The standard jazz middle position pickup solo'd sounds a bit thin to my ears, especially in comparison to the precision bass split coil pickup. I have owned a few jazz basses but almost always end up installing a neck position humbucker to compensate for the thinner sounding pickups (which is sort of what Casady did with his original jazz bass, when he put a split-coil precision pickup up in the neck position). Another sort-of-remedy for the thinner sounding jazz pickups is replacing them with Dimarzio Model J pickups which are designed a lot more like a P-bass pickup, but they fit under jazz-style pickup cover.
If I was reaching for a fender, I would also go precision for the fatter neck; my favorite fender neck being the massive '57 reissue P-bass neck. Interestingly enough my 32" scale Warwick Starbass has a relatively thin neck, but it feels comfy to me... might have to do with depth or profile or perhaps the way the bass hangs when standing up.
Now I'm kind of rambling, so feel free to completely disregard the rest of my post, but if I ever had a signature model bass it would be a 32" semi-hollow body with bridge and middle single coil pickups and a humbucker in the neck position, big fat round neck, and the passive tone circuit I wired up for my current bass (volume, bass filter, treble filter, and 6 position mid filter switch)

This is all good. One aspect is that I really do like a wider and fatter neck. It came about from playing a lot on a Guild F512, which now seems normal to me. Here on LTG you can get the right answers. Most local players, even very good ones are not too finicky about music gear.

 

[idealassets]

Is that why I love his tone so much on Baxter's?
(Rhetorical question, I know it's gotta be a combination of factors, but you might remember for years I had a pet hypothesis that he actually got some of his first Starfire onto that album, especially "Spare Chaynge", the instrumental duet with Jorma. It just sounds so damn woody in places.)
That hypothesis has since been laid to rest but that's interesting tech info.

You're talking about 3 albums that I lived for, and got them all the first day they came out in 1966, 67, and late 67'. I thought $3.98 was a lot of change for the monaural Takes Off album. That was some wonderful bass work for that point in time.

 

[adorshki]

You're talking about 3 albums that I lived for, and got them all the first day they came out in 1966, 67, and late 67'. I thought $3.98 was a lot of change for the monaural Takes Off album. That was some wonderful bass work for that point in time.

Yep, "Blues From an Airplane".
Nothing like it from an American bassist before then, as far as I know.
I suppose a case could be made that Entwhistle was first to get absolutely game changing radical tone in '65 on "My Generation", but according to Wiki it only made #74 on the US charts in December of '65 and that coincides with the recording dates for "Takes Off", so I suspect it wasn't actually on Jack's radar.
My suspicion is that Jack was already accomplished enough to be pursuing his own muse and that the 2 of 'em happened to define new territory for the bass independantly but simultaneously.
Some famous philosopher (was it Leary or Huxley, even?), expounding on the concept of a universal consciousness, once offered that great concepts occur to several people at the same time, as proof.
I think Jack and John may be a good example of that.

 

[idealassets]

Not only that, it's the last stop on the long slippery slope towards becoming the drummer.
Oh waitaminnit, Craig's already been a drummer....

Yes, one aspect is most folks can tell when you have had the fundamentals since so long ago. I am now spending a lot of time in a praise band on a set of Roland electronic drums that is amped throughout a 60' tall cathedral ceiling in a large auditorium. The sound system was designed by an architect that has never played music. Its at least 175' up to the camera and audio mixing board in a balcony, and then another 175' back to the PA speakers all around the building, and also back to our monitors. After I mix the drums from my remote panel what do I always hear? "We need more on the bass drum". I may buy a DI box to put my drumming, bass, or guitar through since to me it sounds like playing into a deep cavern...

Stringed instruments are so much more fulfilling, although its all still good.

 

[idealassets]

If you want a Jazz bas sound with a thinner Hofner-like neck profile, look for a Fender Performer Bass. I use one mostly for practice. They've been appearing on Eby pretty frequently thanks to a couple selling at higher prices.

Do you still use your Guild M-85?

 

[idealassets]

Yep, "Blues From an Airplane".
Nothing like it from an American bassist before then, as far as I know.
I suppose a case could be made that Entwhistle was first to get absolutely game changing radical tone in '65 on "My Generation", but according to Wiki it only made #74 on the US charts in December of '65 and that coincides with the recording dates for "Takes Off", so I suspect it wasn't actually on Jack's radar.
My suspicion is that Jack was already accomplished enough to be pursuing his own muse and that the 2 of 'em happened to define new territory for the bass independantly but simultaneously.
Some famous philosopher (was it Leary or Huxley, even?), expounding on the concept of a universal consciousness, once offered that great concepts occur to several people at the same time, as proof.
I think Jack and John may be a good example of that.

Leary and Huxley, now that's a peach of a pair. But that philosophy does seem to hold true. The Airplane bass work was just amazing. Entwistle also. Come to think of it I never was much of a Jack Bruce or Ginger Baker devotee, although they were also considered to be great innovators about the same point in time.