Are They Calling this Brazilian?

[Taylor Martin Guild]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0523306110
Is this a bait and switch sale.
As you read the description it only mentions that there are a few parts made of Brazilian.
The listing makes it loos like the back and sides are Brazilian.
What do you all think?

 

[jazzmang]

Looks like definite brazilian sides to me. The back? Hard to tell.

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

I'm not getting the Paul Simon connection mentioned in the title. Is it because a former/original owner played a Paul Simon song on it?? Or because Paul Simon once had a similiar model?? :? :?

Seems like a bit of a stretch.

~nw

 

[killdeer43]

I'm not getting the Paul Simon connection mentioned in the title. Is it because a former/original owner played a Paul Simon song on it?? Or because Paul Simon once had a similiar model?? :? :?

Seems like a bit of a stretch.

~nw

Even after you read the description you'll still think it's a stretch, but it's just an example of name dropping, possibly to make the item more attractive.
I think the guitar itself stands alone and doesn't need any unnecessary boosting. :roll:

Joe

 

[idealassets]

From the looks of the spirited bidding, there are folks around that think this is legitimate, and also have the money to back that up.

On another note, how does Brazillian rosewood look compared to Indian. For that matter how does Madigascar rosewood to compare to that? If I ever hope to own anything Brazilian I better start asking.

This forum is getting better every day.

Craig

 

[FNG]

I'm not getting the Paul Simon connection mentioned in the title. Is it because a former/original owner played a Paul Simon song on it?? Or because Paul Simon once had a similiar model?? :? :?

Seems like a bit of a stretch.

~nw

http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~ino_gui/Pau ... pecial.htm

 

[taabru45]

.

On another note, how does Brazillian rosewood look compared to Indian. For that matter how does Madigascar rosewood to compare to that? If I ever hope to own anything Brazilian I better start asking.

Hi Craig..here is what my new old F312 Brazillian looks like viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22463
Its sometimes hard/impossible to tell the difference by looking...
Travelling with Brazillian is now at some risk crossing borders, they can maybe seize anything with brazillian rossewood, or ivory, or tortoise shell etc...even a brazillian bridge or fretboard could mean losing the instrument...not likely, but possible...Grunn won't ship across borders for this very reason...Steffan

 

[taabru45]

.

On another note, how does Brazillian rosewood look compared to Indian. For that matter how does Madigascar rosewood to compare to that? If I ever hope to own anything Brazilian I better start asking.



Hi Craig..here is what my new old F312 Brazillian looks like viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22463
Its sometimes hard/impossible to tell the difference by looking...
Travelling with Brazillian is now at some risk crossing borders, they can maybe seize anything with brazillian rossewood, or ivory, or tortoise shell etc...even a brazillian bridge or fretboard could mean losing the instrument...not likely, but possible...Grunn won't ship across borders for this very reason..Could turn into a bit of a nightmare....Steffan

See the article below....crazy making :? :? :?

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/feature ... ion-treaty

Now aparently the border guys have a test kit to determine if its brazillian....when is enough enough... :shock: :shock:

 

[capnjuan]

... On another note, how does Brazilian rosewood look compared to Indian. For that matter how does Madigascar rosewood to compare to that? If I ever hope to own anything Brazilian I better start asking.

Hi Craig and welcome to LTG. In a print media like this, it's pretty hard to describe the differences in physical appearance between Braz and EIR. For example: this link will return images from the web of Brazilian rosewood and this link will return images of east indian rosewood. As you can see, the distinction can be tough to make.

It might be easier to learn what Braz looks like and then figure that if it doesn't look like Braz, then it must be something else. This is a link to the UMGF ... the Martin Guitar Forum. Those guys are just as inclined to show off their fine guitars as this crowd is. As a guideline, any rosewood Martin made before '65/'66 is ... almost ... certainly Braz. You can also look at Martin offerings on eBay using the same years as a guide.

Most ... but not all ... pre-'67 D55s, F312s, F512s, F30Rs and a few others are Braz; there are known examples of earlier D55s that are EIR. Shortly thereafter, Brazil stopped the export of rosewood altogether. Guitar makers like Martin and Guild still had materials on hand so there are post-'66 guitars that are all, or in part, Braz. The 'is/isn't' question comes up most often for guitars made in the boundary years '67-'69; sellers will tout their guitars as Braz to justify a premium price even though, without the opinion of an appraiser or expert, there's no reliable way to know one way or the other.

Finally, there's the 'smell' test; it's widely believed that if gently abraded with sandpaper on the inside, Braz will produce a 'bubblegum' or 'sweet' smell. You can try this for yourself; when you see a Braz guitar on the internet, press your nose up against the monitor and inhale deeply ... I've never been able to get this to work very well but others say .... :wink:

Good luck; go look for yourself ... lots of reliably Braz guitars on the web to look at.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

...Finally, there's the 'smell' test; it's widely believed that if gently abraded with sandpaper on the inside, Braz will produce a 'bubblegum' or 'sweet' smell. You can try this for yourself; when you see a Braz guitar on the internet, press your nose up against the monitor and inhale deeply ... I've never been able to get this to work very well but others say .... :wink:

:lol:

You can easily spot vintage guitar buffs this way, as well; they have monitor burns on their noses.

Christopher

 

[dane]

Is it me, or does the saddle look really short? I wonder how the string angle is? Could be that this guitar is due or a neck reset. I would have liked to seen a photo of the string height at the 12th fret and a photo of the bridge to see the angle.

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Dane; agree the auction is missing some pics and that the bridge looks like it's had a shave or two ... not exactly a ringing endorsement but unless it's been buffed out, that guitar is in remarkable condition and the bidding is going to push us penny-pinchers out anyway. It's a 40 year-old guitar ... anybody willing to bid that kind of money knows what they're looking at.

I thought this was interesting: "No offense to anyone, but I hate to sell guitars to neurotic perfectionists. If that description fits you, do us both a favor and don't bid. However, if your name is Paul Simon, feel free to contact me personally and we'll work something out."

I know he's trying to be funny but isn't he calling Paul Simon a "...neurotic perfectionist ..." here? :lol:

 

[capnjuan]

...Finally, there's the 'smell' test .. You can try this for yourself; when you see a Braz guitar on the internet, press your nose up against the monitor and inhale deeply ... I've never been able to get this to work very well but others say .... :wink:

:lol: You can easily spot vintage guitar buffs this way, as well; they have monitor burns on their noses.

... and a set of sunglasses nearby to cut the glare ... I prefer Maui Jims but others feel differently :wink:

 

[eastcoastbuzz]

This actually is the "Paul Simon" model. Guild made the F30 in rosewood for him in the 60's. The F30R went into production in '73 so this is either a special order or a limited run. I have a '71 model. Braz or not, that guitar should be worth up to (but no more than) a couple grand depending on actual condition. If it sounds anything like mine it would definitely be a keeper.

 

[dane]

Hi Dane; agree the auction is missing some pics and that the bridge looks like it's had a shave or two ... not exactly a ringing endorsement but unless it's been buffed out, that guitar is in remarkable condition and the bidding is going to push us penny-pinchers out anyway. It's a 40 year-old guitar ... anybody willing to bid that kind of money knows what they're looking at.

I agree that the guitar is probably worth $2K. I also agree that most of us would know that this guitar would probably need a neck reset due to its age even though it appears to be in wonderful condition. What I was trying to point out was my keen sense of observation noticing the low saddle while sniffing my monitor to check for the bubble gum smell. :roll: :lol:

 

[eastcoastbuzz]

Dane, I smelled bubble gum on the sides but not the back but couldn't see a thing with my eyes that close to the monitor. Don't have my glasses with me today!!!

 

[RussD]

As an aside from the Brazilian discussion, the auction's bidding pattern looks suspect to me; one bidder with 8 feedbacks has driven the price up consistently. Some dealers have been known to use friends or new ID's to drive up the price of an auction. I will make a wager that the bidder driving it up doesn't win the auction or if they do, that it reappears for auction in a few weeks.
Just my 2 cents after selling over 1100 items with a 100% feedback rating...

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

Have to agree with you...that bidder is exposing the other bidders probable proxy bid maximums each time...

Look at the one other guitar currently for sale by the same seller...same pattern. :wink:

Just looked at his sold items...same pattern.

That kind of 'frenzied' bidding is just not happening in this economy to other sellers items...

 

[idealassets]

Folks did everyone read the desription on this guitar that mentioned the repaired crack? Perhaps I need to learn yet some more here, but how seriuos of a flaw is that?

Craig

 

[dapmdave]

... On another note, how does Brazilian rosewood look compared to Indian. For that matter how does Madigascar rosewood to compare to that? If I ever hope to own anything Brazilian I better start asking.

Hi Craig and welcome to LTG. In a print media like this, it's pretty hard to describe the differences in physical appearance between Braz and EIR. For example: this link will return images from the web of Brazilian rosewood and this link will return images of east indian rosewood. As you can see, the distinction can be tough to make.

It might be easier to learn what Braz looks like and then figure that if it doesn't look like Braz, then it must be something else. This is a link to the UMGF ... the Martin Guitar Forum. Those guys are just as inclined to show off their fine guitars as this crowd is. As a guideline, any rosewood Martin made before '65/'66 is ... almost ... certainly Braz. You can also look at Martin offerings on eBay using the same years as a guide.

Most ... but not all ... pre-'67 D55s, F312s, F512s, F30Rs and a few others are Braz; there are known examples of earlier D55s that are EIR. Shortly thereafter, Brazil stopped the export of rosewood altogether. Guitar makers like Martin and Guild still had materials on hand so there are post-'66 guitars that are all, or in part, Braz. The 'is/isn't' question comes up most often for guitars made in the boundary years '67-'69; sellers will tout their guitars as Braz to justify a premium price even though, without the opinion of an appraiser or expert, there's no reliable way to know one way or the other.

Finally, there's the 'smell' test; it's widely believed that if gently abraded with sandpaper on the inside, Braz will produce a 'bubblegum' or 'sweet' smell. You can try this for yourself; when you see a Braz guitar on the internet, press your nose up against the monitor and inhale deeply ... I've never been able to get this to work very well but others say .... :wink:

Good luck; go look for yourself ... lots of reliably Braz guitars on the web to look at.

Doggone it, capn! The sandpaper made a heckuva mess on my monitor!

Dave :lol: