all-mahogany or spruce or rosewood-twelvies!!

[Pikemusic]

Hello everybody!

I am a new member in this great society.

I am a composer and artist in northern Sweden building up my guitar-arsenal for the recording of my first album, and I´m almost finished, just a few issues still. One of them is a subject I´m sure you can help me with:

If we take a look at the 12-string Guilds built at the Westerly-plant in the seventies and in the eighties, and if you´ll picture my music as melancholy and hopeful shimmering pop-music, and keep in mind that I am looking for a shimmering, dark and chimey sound:

1. How do you describe the most significant difference in sound and expression between all-mahogany dreadnought twelvies, spruce top/mahogany back and sides Jumbo twelvies and finally spruce top/rosewood back dreadnought twelvies?

2. Is there a major difference in sound between the all-mahogany D15-twelvies from the eighties and their counterparts from the seventies, due to different contruction? is there a major difference in sound between the cherry-stained specimen and the ones with gloss finish?

Warmest greetings from the land of the midnight sun, and thanks in advance for guidance, so I´ll finally reach the sound that is a part of the visions I have for the production of the remaining songs for my album.

Jens, Northern Sweden

 

[fungusyoung]

It's all personal preferences, but here's some quick thoughts....

- Mahogany is a gorgeous sounding tone wood, especially for recording. It's subtle, earthy... woody. Sweet tones, and decent projection and sustain. All mahogany probably gives you a little less boom than a spruce top would, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Just ask Tom Petty.

- Maple: Bright/chimey, but not in a bad way. A great and natural complement to mahogany when you record (or play live) with two different acoustics. Maple back/sides Guild jumbos are fantastic sounding guitars. Maybe the best sounding 12's in the world.

- Rosewood: Complex, untamed and rich. Definitely the hardest to reel in for the purposes of recording, and also probably the best projection (though maple would be close). Rosewood is the most unique sounding of the three to me, but for some reason I prefer 6 string dread rosewoods vs. 12's. Many here would disagree with this, and I'm probably just not nearly a good enough player to properly handle a rosewood 12... especially a jumbo. Maple, by comparison, just churns out a more natural (albeit bright) tone.

Best of luck with your recording project!

 

[bluegrass jubilee]

shallow, deeper, deepest
or
bright, sweet, savory

choose your nomenclature to suit your tastes!

 

[Pikemusic]

Thanks so much for great descripition and advice!!.......

Some follow up questions:

1. Were there any other all-mahogany-dreadnought-twelvestrings than the D-15 made in the 80´s & 90´s?, and What did Guild call the all-mahogany dreadnought-twelvestring-model(s?)in the seventies?
2. Did Guild ever made any all-mahogany-jumbo´s?

Jens(pikemusic)

 

[Metalman]

Here is a little of what you are looking for:

An all mahogany dreadnought 12-string:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1983-GUILD-G-212-G2 ... dZViewItem

And:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1972-Guild-G212-NT- ... dZViewItem

The F-30 version of a 12-string, called the F-112:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1975-GUILD-F-112-Vi ... dZViewItem

And the jumbo bodied 12-string, all mahogany:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=007

And the earlier version of the above:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=011

Phew! Yes, Guild made quite a few all mahogany bodied 12-strings.

 

[kostask]

Metalman:

All of the eBay guitars you posted have spruce tops (I'm pretty sure), so they are not "all mahogany", as would be some of the D-25 six strings (defining "all mahogany" as mahogany top, sides, and back). I don't know if Guild ever made a 12 string jumbo guitar with a mahogany top as a regular production model, but I'm sure somebody will point out my mistake if they did.

Kostas

 

[Metalman]

Metalman:

All of the eBay guitars you posted have spruce tops (I'm pretty sure), so they are not "all mahogany", as would be some of the D-25 six strings (defining "all mahogany" as mahogany top, sides, and back). I don't know if Guild ever made a 12 string jumbo guitar with a mahogany top as a regular production model, but I'm sure somebody will point out my mistake if they did.

Kostas

Whoa, you are looking for ALL mahogany bodied guitars, right? When we say around here, all mahogany, we usually mean just the back and sides.

Well, my mistake, yes those were all spruce tops on them babies.

To the best of my knowledge, the only guitar that was ever made like that is the Martin J12-15, which is, or was, all mahogany. Now they are making them with Sapele. It sounds the same, just doesn't look the same.

I have played these, and can say that they are really warm-sounding, nice playing 12-strings. And reasonably priced, under $1,000.

They're around, and can be had with the "old" Mahogany back and sides, and top as well.

 

[Pikemusic]

Yes, I am looking for Guild-twelvies with mahogany top, back and sides, which I, as Metalman did, define as all-mahogany, but thanks anyway for the ebay-links!! Since I know that Guild, while building guitars at the Westerly-plant were experimenting a lot, it is really intriguing to wonder if they ever built a twelvestring jumbo with a mahogany top.....I guess that would be one of the deepest, darkest sounding twelestrings of all times, just like the well-aged single-malt whisky from the isle of Islay(Scotland) named Bowmore Darkest. If someone told me there was such a guitar built at the Westerly-plant, I would start hunting after it right away, eventhough I still look for a good all-mahogany Guild-dreadnought.....

Jens(Pikemusic)

 

[fungusyoung]

Thanks so much for great descripition and advice!!.......

Some follow up questions:

1. Were there any other all-mahogany-dreadnought-twelvestrings than the D-15 made in the 80´s & 90´s?, and What did Guild call the all-mahogany dreadnought-twelvestring-model(s?)in the seventies?
2. Did Guild ever made any all-mahogany-jumbo´s?

Jens(pikemusic)

I'm not aware of any other all mahogany Guild 12's in addition to the D-15-12. But, it's a good question, and I'm sure someone will respond if this is incorrect.

 

[Pikemusic]

Ok, I made a mistake, thinking that Metalman defined "all-mahogany" as guitars with a mahogany-top, it was of course Kostas that made that definition, which I share......thanks anyway for the links, metalman......

Jens(Pikemusic)

 

[Metalman]

Yes, I am looking for Guild-twelvies with mahogany top, back and sides, which I, as Metalman did, define as all-mahogany, but thanks anyway for the ebay-links!! Since I know that Guild, while building guitars at the Westerly-plant were experimenting a lot, it is really intriguing to wonder if they ever built a twelvestring jumbo with a mahogany top.....I guess that would be one of the deepest, darkest sounding twelestrings of all times, just like the well-aged single-malt whisky from the isle of Islay(Scotland) named Bowmore Darkest. If someone told me there was such a guitar built at the Westerly-plant, I would start hunting after it right away, eventhough I still look for a good all-mahogany Guild-dreadnought.....

Jens(Pikemusic)

Well, when we at LTG come against a brick wall in our search for the elusive Guild which may or may not have ever been built, we always turn to our main Guru, Hans Moust. If there was such a guitar made, such as the ALL mahogany 12-string, then Hans would know about it.
He wrote the book. He really did, called The Guild Guitar Book. Did you know that, Jens?

How about it, Hans; wake up! You out there?

 

[hansmoust]

Yes, I am looking for Guild-twelvies with mahogany top, back and sides, which I, as Metalman did, define as all-mahogany, but thanks anyway for the ebay-links!! Since I know that Guild, while building guitars at the Westerly-plant were experimenting a lot, it is really intriguing to wonder if they ever built a twelvestring jumbo with a mahogany top..... Jens

How about it, Hans; wake up! You out there?

Hello Jens & Metalman,

To the best of my knowledge Guild didn't make an all-mahogany Jumbo 12-string as a production model. The only all-mahogany 12-strings that were done were the D-15-12 and the D-17-12, which were done during the '80s. That doesn't mean that they never did an all-mahogany 12-string with a 17" jumbo style body.
It is very well possible that they tried that configuration just to see if it would work, but if they did, it never resulted in actual production. Guild was pretty bad about keeping records of things they tried.

Sincerely,

Hans moust
http://www.guitarsgalore

 

[Pikemusic]

Hello again, Metalman and Hans Moust!!

Unfortenately I had to go and take care of some studio-work before you were posting the last replies.

Many thanks Metalman for the invocation of Guild-expert Hans Moust, and thanks Hans for informing me of
the status of an eventual all-mahogany Guild Jumbo-style 12-string-guitar........If someone who was working at
the Westerly-plant knows anything about an existing prototype of an all-mahogany Jumbo-style 12-string-Guild
that was produced, and knows where that guitar is, please contact me - I would be very thankful of any info even if it isn´t for sale.....

Meanwhile, I have to make an invocation again for Mr. Moust: You´re mentioning the 12-string Guild D-17,
which is very interesting, I have to ask you, what is the difference between a twelvestring D-15 and a D-17?

I have never seen a D-17, and I would be interested in buying one.........Though I never got to know exactly if one is allowed
to ask members on this page about guitars for sale, or to eventually buy guitars from other members....is that allowed on this forum?

Jens(Pikemusic)

 

[Metalman]

Hello again, Metalman and Hans Moust!!

Unfortenately I had to go and take care of some studio-work before you were posting the last replies.

Many thanks Metalman for the invocation of Guild-expert Hans Moust, and thanks Hans for informing me of
the status of an eventual all-mahogany Guild Jumbo-style 12-string-guitar........If someone who was working at
the Westerly-plant knows anything about an existing prototype of an all-mahogany Jumbo-style 12-string-Guild
that was produced, and knows where that guitar is, please contact me - I would be very thankful of any info even if it isn´t for sale.....

Meanwhile, I have to make an invocation again for Mr. Moust: You´re mentioning the 12-string Guild D-17,
which is very interesting, I have to ask you, what is the difference between a twelvestring D-15 and a D-17?

I have never seen a D-17, and I would be interested in buying one.........Though I never got to know exactly if one is allowed
to ask members on this page about guitars for sale, or to eventually buy guitars from other members....is that allowed on this forum?

Jens(Pikemusic)

Yes, it is allowed, in fact we often buy from each other, as well as direct one another in the wise purchase of such and such a guitar. We are always helping each other out in the pursuit of a particular instrument.

AND if a member sees an item, usually another Guild guitar on Ebay, and informs the members that he or she is bidding on it, then everybody out of respect pretty much stays out of the way.

Check out the board index, and scroll down to "Member's Cove". Here's the link:

viewforum.php?f=15

It is one big nutty family here at LTG . . .

AND Hans is practically in your neighborhood - he is in Denmark. That is the same as the Netherlands, isn't it?

 

[Pikemusic]

Thanks for the info Metalman, it is really a great policy regarding everything here at LTG, and I especially like the respectful
that truly comes across. So, let´s see what Hans Moust has to say about the D-17-12, and how it differs from the D-15-12.
Do we have any members of this site that earlier worked at the Westerly-plant?

Jens(Pikemusic)

My guitars:
Westerly ´83 D-25
Westerly ´82 F-212XL
Corona all-mahogany D-25 from the 2000´s equipped with Seymour Duncan SA-6
Gibson J-45-Workingman from the 2000´s
Rickenbacker 360/12-V64
Rickenbacker 1997 Rose Morris-export series reissue
Rickenbacker Colorado
Gibson Les Paul Standard from the 2000´s
Gibson SG-Standard ´67
Fender Telecaster ´67
Squier Stratocaster ´84
Emperador Hummingbird from the 70´s
Gretsch "Way Out West" limited edition parlor guitar(very good in fact)
Academy McCartney-style violin bass
ESP-Viper SG-style allround-bass

 

[hansmoust]

You´re mentioning the 12-string Guild D-17, which is very interesting, I have to ask you, what is the difference between a twelvestring D-15 and a D-17?

Hello Pikemusic,

They are basically the same guitar. The difference is in the trimmings and finish.
During the period they were both manufactured, the D-15-12 didn't have any body binding and it had a satin finish (a few D-15-12s were done with black top binding). The D-17-12 had white binding and a glossy finish. Good luck finding a D-17-12!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Metalman]

Do we have any members of this site that earlier worked at the Westerly-plant?

Jens(Pikemusic)

Okay, NOW you're pushin' it . . . .

 

[bek]

I don't know if this helps, but I'm the original owner of a 1973 D25, mahogany top/back/sides/neck, arched back. It's the best flattop I've played, and I've had trade offers for "better" Guilds, too. The mahogany top makes a huge, warm sound. I just bought a 1983 D15-12, essentially the same construction. It has a dull finish and the back doesn't seem as arched. It sounds very similar to the D25, but the higher strings aren't as thick-sounding as the 6-string. I don't know how much of that has to do with the 10-gauge versus 12-gauge strings and the "ring-y" sound of the paired strings. I keep a fairly high action on the 6-string (other people hate it, but the tone with high action and hard strumming is amazing) but it's lower on the 12. That matters, too.

 

[Pikemusic]

Thanks for the advive Bek! It´s interesting to hear your description of the sound of a real Westerly all-mahogany 6-string;
I own a corona-made all-mahogany D25 six-string that sounds decently good, but after what I´ve heard about the old all-mahogany D25´s from Westerly, I´ll guell I´d have to buy one at one point to feel that experience. I own a beautiful 83´s Westerly-built D25 with a spruce top that sounds wonderful, but I really have to try an all-mahogany one too.

First, though, due to my approaching recordings I am still looking for a decent D15-12 or a D17-12, so if someone owns one of these, and feels that it is time for a new investment and want to sell, please get in contact so we can talk about it....

And, yeah Metalman, I am really pushing it , so any Westerly-plant-guys out there, please tell me the story of where that all-mahogany twelvestring Jumbo-prototype might be now - if there was any prototypes of such model made of course.....



Jens(Pikemusic)

 

[Pikemusic]

Right version of my answer due to non-proof reading before posting: Thanks for the advice Bek! It´s interesting to hear your description of the sound of a real Westerly all-mahogany 6-string;
I own a corona-made all-mahogany D25 six-string that sounds decently good, but after what I´ve heard about the old all-mahogany D25´s from Westerly, I´ll guess I´d have to buy one at one point to feel that experience. I own a beautiful 83´s Westerly-built D25 with a spruce top that sounds wonderful, but I really have to try an all-mahogany one too.

First, though, due to my approaching recordings I am still looking for a decent D15-12 or a D17-12, so if someone owns one of these, and feels that it is time for a new investment and want to sell, please get in contact so we can talk about it....

And, yeah Metalman, I am really pushing it , so any Westerly-plant-guys out there, please tell me the story of where that all-mahogany twelvestring Jumbo-prototype might be now - if there was any prototypes of such model made, of course.....



Jens(Pikemusic)