A Luthier looks at a Guild F2512

kostask

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Just thought this may be of interest for owners of the F2512s. The things that he goes over regarding the bridge may be of interest to those having issues with the baritone Guilds (BT258?), specifically the bridge glue used and the finish under the bridge.

 
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davismanLV

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Just thought this may be of interest for owners of the F2512s. The things that he goes over regarding the bridge may be of interest to those having issues with the baritone Guilds (BT258?), specifically the bridge glue used and the finish under the bridge.
Was there supposed to be a link or something to follow with your post? Maybe?
 

beecee

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Was there supposed to be a link or something to follow with your post? Maybe?
1667823984494.png
 

beecee

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Ha!!!! Same here!!!

I guess veers can be tolerated until Monsieur Kostask returns
 

Boneman

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Cool, thanks, I enjoy watching the occasional repair videos, and especially for ones related to repairs I'm about to undertake myself :)
 

kostask

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Sorry all, I thought I had posted the link. I fixed my original post, but schoolie's mind reading talents were faster. Ted Woodford is a really good repair guy, and deserves his reputation as one of the better ones.
 

ClaytonS15

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Thanks. I really enjoy Woodford’s videos. I learn something every time.
 

wileypickett

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I bought an F2512 when they first appeared and were being offered with or without internal pickups. (No one will be surprised to learn that I chose the "sans pickup" version!)

I quite like the guitar and have had no issues with it at all.

But in the past several years I've noticed numerous F2512s being sold as damaged, or as factory seconds due to one issue or another.

I wonder if the success of the model (a Guild jumbo 12-string for around 400 bucks?! -- hard to beat!) has lead to some "streamlining" of the build process?

Whatever it is, their quaity control seems to be suffering.
 
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Default

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I bought an F2512 when they first appeared and were being offered with or without internal pickups. (No one will be surprised to learn that I chose the "sans pickup" version!)

I quite like the guitar and have had no issues with it at all.

But in the past several years I've noticed numerous F2512s being sold as damaged, or as factory seconds due to one issue or another.

I wonder if the success of the model (a Guild jumbo 12-string for around 400 bucks is hard to beat) has lead to some "streamlining" of the build process?

Whatever it is, their quaity control seems to be suffering.

There are still rolling shutdowns in China, due to health concerns. Maybe they are understaffed and trying to push out the same amount of product.
 

schoolie

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I think Ted Woodford is the best luthier on the Tube. He is a very skilled and knowledgable luthier and woodworker. Beyond that he has a very laid-back, unpretentious style, and he edits the videos very well, so they're never boring. I watch them when I feel stressed, and they are better than meditation for calming my nerves.
 

kostask

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I bought an F2512 when they first appeared and were being offered with or without internal pickups. (No one will be surprised to learn that I chose the "sans pickup" version!)

I quite like the guitar and have had no issues with it at all.

But in the past several years I've noticed numerous F2512s being sold as damaged, or as factory seconds due to one issue or another.

I wonder if the success of the model (a Guild jumbo 12-string for around 400 bucks?! -- hard to beat!) has lead to some "streamlining" of the build process?

Whatever it is, their quaity control seems to be suffering.
In the video, Ted Woodford points out the glue used between the bridge and guitar top as being some sort of epoxy, which should make it impossible to separate from the top, yet he had no issue removing it in the video. It brings up the following questions:

1. Why are they using epoxy, and whether or not the epoxy (I am making an assumption that it was a two part epoxy) was properly mixed (resin to hardener). Seeing how easy it was to remove, it appears not to have been properly mixed. As a follow up to that, why didn't they use the standard aliphatic (Titebond I/standard wood glue)?

2. If you watch the video carefully, you can see that the "wings" of the bridge were the reason that the bridge was lifting off. That raises the question as to whether the bridge was properly fitted to the guitar from the factory. If epoxy was properly used, maybe this doesn't matter, but the epoxy used wasn't working properly either, so the bridge lifted.

3. The point that Ted Woodford raises about gluing onto a plastic finish and the glue not being able to bond to the plastic (or nitro for that matter) finish is true for aliphatic and hide glues, but if it was indeed an epoxy glue, it should have bonded. All of the decent quality epoxies will bond to just about anything. Brings into question the quality of the glue used to bond the bridge to the guitar top, and also whether it was even epoxy in the first place.

The whole bridge to guitar top bonding thing is why I posted the video in the first place. I don't have a baritone from the Chinese Guild factory myself, but maybe the "stuck" bridge pin problem is actually related to the same glue issue that was shown in the video. Perhaps the bridges are shifting forward very slightly under string tension, which is jamming the bridge pins into place and not allowing them to be removed?
 

wileypickett

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I question whether it was epoxy too. Epoxy, mixed, applied and clamped properly, would have bonded so thoroughly that the bridge would have taken a biggish chunk of the top with it when it was pried off.

The bridge in this instance came off quite cleanly.

One of my former luthiers was unable to remove a bridge that some genius had epoxied on. He had to sand the bridge completely off and then level the footprint even with the top in order to seat a new bridge.
 
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