1980/81 (?) D212

[hansmoust]

This is my response to a posting by 'the super8' in the FS/FT section:

SERIAL # AA100422.. This guitar is stamped "Factory Second." I was told that it was because the Sunburst finish was shot too dark; that may be - I can find no defect on the guitar, and I've done some very thorough looking!

Probably not! The sunbursts around this time were all very dark. Most likely it had some 'handling marks' that prevented it from getting sold as a 'brand new' guitar. Rather than going through the trouble and trying to fix it, they would stamp it as a factory second and give the dealer an extra discount. Regular use would give you the same kind of wear, so if you would look at the guitar after a couple of years, you probably couldn't tell why it was sold as a 'factory second'.

I speculate that the serial number indicates that this may be a pre-production guitar, since the D212 was officially produced only in 1981, 1982 and 1983 and the production runs consisted of 444 D212's in 1982 and 366 in 1983, the production run would have had to be at least 663 units in 1981 for this to be that model year, which seems unlikely.

That's the part I have the most trouble with. If you are going to look at production figures for a particular model during several consecutive years and you are trying to draw conclusions from these figures, you need to see them 'in the context' of the total Guild production during those same years.

First of all, your D-212 with ser. # AA100422 is a regular production model from 1981, which was the year it was added to the line. If you think that 663 units would be a lot compared to the 444 for the year 1982 and 366 for 1983, you may be surprised to hear that production started in 1981 with ser. # AA100001 and ended with # AA101085, which makes it a total of 1085 units for that first year.

Now I've made a quick little chart for you and if you look at the production numbers of other Guild guitars during the same 3-year period, you should see the pattern:

The numbers for 1981 look reasonable high compared to 1982, but actually they were already down compared to 1980. 1982 and 1983 were the years that Guild started getting in trouble.
One of the reasons was the high value of the dollar compared to other currencies, which had made Guild guitars extremely expensive and export was almost down to nothing. The other reason was the fact that, apart from 'heavy metal' music, the guitar was as good as dead. Mainstream pop music was more synthesizer oriented and like many other guitar companies, Guild was really suffering.

However ........ that's a completely different story!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[capnjuan]

... a story in Vol 2? :wink: Thank you Hans. J

 

[the super8]

Wow!
That's a thorough education.
Thank you for filling in the missing pieces.
Do you mind if I use this information in my listing?

Thank you

 

[Pike]

That's the part I have the most trouble with. If you are going to look at production figures for a particular model during several consecutive years and you are trying to draw conclusions from these figures, you need to see them 'in the context' of the total Guild production during those same years.

Thanks for clearing that up Hans!

 

[hansmoust]

Do you mind if I use this information in my listing?

Hello Will,

No, I do not mind but I would think only the 'factory second' info is relevant when you're trying to sell a guitar. Wouldn't you think so?

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[the super8]

I certainly agree.

 

[chazmo]

Wow, those acoustic numbers really did die in the early '80s. With that table it's painfully clear.

My only question, Hans, is about exports... Roughly what percentage of this fall-off in production numbers was due to decreased foreign demand / export? I'm just really curious about that because it seems like the death of the acoustic guitar in the early '80s was a pretty world-wide phenomenon. I know, for example, that even the Japanese brands -- still recovering from the lawsuit era -- had very reduced production numbers during that era.

As an interesting aside, it's rather cool how Taylor grew out of the ashes of this period. They were seriously ramping *up* by the mid-80s with a purely acoustic line-up. Of course, they were starting from mostly nothing (they did sag in the early '80s too), but the growth coming out of this period pretty much took over where a lot of the other brands had just lost their way.

 

[hansmoust]

Wow, those acoustic numbers really did die in the early '80s. With that table it's painfully clear.

Yes, and it would go down even more in 1984.

My only question, Hans, is about exports... Roughly what percentage of this fall-off in production numbers was due to decreased foreign demand / export? I'm just really curious about that because it seems like the death of the acoustic guitar in the early '80s was a pretty world-wide phenomenon.

I really couldn't tell you. As I already mentioned, export was down to about nothing ( the exact words of one of the people in charge at the time). I can only assume that sales for acoustic guitars were down in the U.S. as well and like every other guitar company Guild was trying hard to get a piece of the 'heavy metal/hard rock' pie by introducing their versions of the 'superstrat'. Not a very inspiring period for the electric guitar although eventually some good stuff came out because of it.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[chazmo]

Thanks, Hans. Too bad Guild didn't start making synthesizers or perhaps hair extensions.

 

[Dadaist]

This my first post having returned to the Guild Family after a twenty-five year (I traded a nice D-40 which I purchased new in '75 for an older D-28 which I still own.....what can I say, I was young and it was the '80s?) hiatus. I recently acquired an '83 D-212 SB. The serial number is AA1016XX, and according to the Guild factory website the run went to AA101895.

In the little research I've done (one of the interesting aspects of vintage guitar ownership.....) Hans is correct in the dark sunburst on these guitars, mine included, to the point that the rosette almost disappears. It also seems that the Factory used different tuners throughout the three year run. I've seen guitars with open back, 6x6s on a strip, as well as Guild- stamped closed units, which mine has. Maybe Hans can answer this question: did they use what they had in stock at the time or were they changing over from open to closed tuners?

David

 

[hansmoust]

I recently acquired an '83 D-212 SB. The serial number is AA1016XX, and according to the Guild factory website the run went to AA101895.

Hello David,

Welcome! Once you will spend a little more time here, you will notice from the various postings that the 'official' Guild serial number lists are seriously lacking. They are sort of OK for general dating but there are many mistakes and omissions.

In case of the D-212, the production of D-212s lasted a whole lot longer and they made almost a thousand more D-212s between 1984 and 1986.

It also seems that the Factory used different tuners throughout the three year run. I've seen guitars with open back, 6x6s on a strip, as well as Guild- stamped closed units, which mine has. Maybe Hans can answer this question: did they use what they had in stock at the time or were they changing over from open to closed tuners?

Yes, they changed from 6-on-a-plate to individual closed tuners a little before your guitar was made. During this period a lot of new tuners became available from Japan and consequently you will find a lot of different types on Guild guitars from the '80s.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[killdeer43]

This my first post having returned to the Guild Family after a twenty-five year hiatus.
David

Welcome back, David.
We missed you! :wink:

Joe

 

[jciampa]

Wow, those acoustic numbers really did die in the early '80s. With that table it's painfully clear.

Yes, and it would go down even more in 1984.

My only question, Hans, is about exports... Roughly what percentage of this fall-off in production numbers was due to decreased foreign demand / export? I'm just really curious about that because it seems like the death of the acoustic guitar in the early '80s was a pretty world-wide phenomenon.

I really couldn't tell you. As I already mentioned, export was down to about nothing ( the exact words of one of the people in charge at the time). I can only assume that sales for acoustic guitars were down in the U.S. as well and like every other guitar company Guild was trying hard to get a piece of the 'heavy metal/hard rock' pie by introducing their versions of the 'superstrat'. Not a very inspiring period for the electric guitar although eventually some good stuff came out because of it.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

I think I heard that 1983 was a low point for Martin in terms of production -- interesting when you think about it in the context of prevailing musical tastes of the time. About five years later ('88 or so), you can really see interest in acoustic music starting to rebound with the singer-songwriter/folk revival and the burgeoning "unplugged" scene.