Uh, Epiphone was founded in 1873, hardly makes them young in the 1950s. In fact, Gibson wasn't founded until 1902, so Epiphone was older than the purchasing company.
Brad
Fender to close New Hartford operations
- Thread starter Geotrio
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Brad
Fender's problem is they have never allowed the brand to settle anywhere or have it's own identity. Couple that with the fact that they did an absolutely awful job with marketing & distribution... Fender has just never seemed to "buy in" with Guild. Fender could have used Guild as direct competition to Martin/Gibson/Taylor, instead they did almost no marketing or endorsements to speak of & they made it almost impossible for anyone to find a Guild to play. To top it all off, they bragged on the "limited production" of the NH factory...and then blamed limited production as one of the reason for closure.
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One of the guys at the factory told me that they could have cranked out 500 guitars a week but Fender was enamored with the profit margin on limited run guitars. They were perfectly capable of cranking out a huge run of D-25s but I suppose that would conflict price-wise with the Mexican line. Too many lines, from too many countries, saturating the market and diluting the brand.
A_J, the problem with inovation is that it has minimal legs. Look at Steinberger and Parker Fly guitars. How many people own them? You have to sell something that makes sense, brandwise. Every other manufacturer does. So Godin is making a Telecaster knockoff with an acoustic bridge. Fender had/has the Acousticaster. How many of them sold?
You can point to Godin's model but they are visually... What's the word? They don't make you smile when you open the case.
I'm sure it's a good sounding guitar but it's not attractive.
A_J, the problem with inovation is that it has minimal legs. Look at Steinberger and Parker Fly guitars. How many people own them? You have to sell something that makes sense, brandwise. Every other manufacturer does. So Godin is making a Telecaster knockoff with an acoustic bridge. Fender had/has the Acousticaster. How many of them sold?
You can point to Godin's model but they are visually... What's the word? They don't make you smile when you open the case.
I'm sure it's a good sounding guitar but it's not attractive.
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mavuser
Enlightened Member
thanks, didn't realize. I'm not familiar with any Epiphone guitars quite that old. Will keep it on the radar!
Westerly Wood
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this is the irony that kills and makes this such a tragedy for Nh and Fender, though Fender no doubt sees this as a win.
GF60
Member
It does seem after Fender acquired Guild, that Guild just lost their presence. During the 70s and 80s, I could walk into most guitar shops and Guilds were displayed. Then during the middle 90s they just "disappeared". Even my favorite local shop who had Guild as their anchor brand, stopped offering them. The owner cited Fender's management as the problem, at least for him. I still want to get a hold of another 12 string some day.
A sad day for the NH employees.
Neal
Senior Member
Does anyone know how many guitars, total, were coming out of New Hartford per day?
Neal
Neal
davismanLV
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Also, cutting back production and charging higher prices for your guitars does not SUDDENLY make you a Boutique Instrument maker. There's years of history and a market perception of what Guild is. That perception took YEARS to achieve. Bill Collings (just to name one) has a history of low production and high-end, sought after guitars. Same with Richard Hoover and Santa Cruz guitars. Guild has been making guitars for over 60 years and gone through so many changes with FMIC. You don't just suddenly flip a switch and have everyone in America and the rest of the world see what an amazing BOUTIQUE brand they are. Makes me wonder what the costs of moving production are and have been, and also the amount of money spent on doing that very thing multiple times.... over and over.
I'm just throwing stuff out and I'm still pissed off.......
I'm just throwing stuff out and I'm still pissed off.......
As far as Guilds? Less than 20 per day.
bluesypicky
Enlightened Member
Typical and pathetic corporate attempt to throw a soothing "PR" speech in order to try saving face with the public at large, and help employees lick their wounds.
"See! We"re not bad guys. We really had no way to see this coming, we're terribly sorry..... oh but waitaminit.... we did make the case that we were aiming at an upscale market niche, and willingly opted for keeping it a limited production item. Ooops. Sorry again. We lied."
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SouthernSounds
Senior Member
Yeah. If you do not have a special commitment with the brand (as FMIC clearly does), you just keep moving it around, wasting money, hoping to miraculously find that hot spot that makes it flourish (and uncommitted folks richer). On the other hand, if for some reason you love what you do or if you really want to achieve something (profits, high quality instruments, customers satisfaction or...), possibly, you are going to try to do your best to make it real: thoughtful or rational investments, well planned marketing, good distribution chains, etc.
Lot of good ideas I have read here at the forum. Lot of things to ponder, but I keep thinking that FMIC did not do right thing with Guild. Guild has (had) potential. They just did not capitalized it.
All the best,
B.
Neal
Senior Member
So, at 20 guitars per day, each guitar sold would need to support the daily livelihood of 2.3 employees, while also covering the cost of materials, machinery, rent/debt on the building, medical plans for employees, marketing and distribution, etc. while also providing for a decent profit margin for FMIC.
If I were looking at this business model from the viewpoint of an investor, I would keep my checkbook in my pocket. Even if the guitars were as good as they are.
There is no way that they made a profit on the F-50 Std I purchased last month, given all that went into its construction.
Neal
If I were looking at this business model from the viewpoint of an investor, I would keep my checkbook in my pocket. Even if the guitars were as good as they are.
There is no way that they made a profit on the F-50 Std I purchased last month, given all that went into its construction.
Neal
12 string
Senior Member
I've been too bummed to respond.
As sad as it is, it's certainly no shock. FMIC has been in the clutches of predatory holding companies who make it their business to ensnare other companies, loot their assets, and send the proceeds, leftover jobs and cheapened brand names offshore.
Sorry if this crosses the political line, but when it just slaps you in the face like this there's no point in not acknowledging it.
' Strang
As sad as it is, it's certainly no shock. FMIC has been in the clutches of predatory holding companies who make it their business to ensnare other companies, loot their assets, and send the proceeds, leftover jobs and cheapened brand names offshore.
Sorry if this crosses the political line, but when it just slaps you in the face like this there's no point in not acknowledging it.
' Strang
hideglue
Senior Member
6 factories, 3 countries, 2 continents in less than 20 years after shutting down Westerly; it's time for Fender to stop blaming "current market conditions" and just admit that they've no freakin' clue how to run a company.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Actually even 4. (USA, Mexico, China, South Korea).
Ralf
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I brought this up on the Gretsch Forum and suggested they look for changes in their product line. I got laughed at. This stuff hasn't ended with Guild. Just look at how FMIC has been coming out with every darned variation on a Telecaster possible to keep people buying something, ANYTHING, to keep the dollars flowing in.
A Tele with Filtertrons? That's just grasping at straws.
A Tele with Filtertrons? That's just grasping at straws.
bluesypicky
Enlightened Member
Give it to 'em straight 'Strang! No need to bury one's head in the sand.
fronobulax
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Depends. Every time I throw out my estimate of 3000 guitars per year (of all brands) people nod their heads and say they don't have a better number. At one point I was told in a side conversation that the target for the factory, not yet reached was, 5000. The same conversation included the statement that the efficiency goal was one guitar per floor worker per day which (depending upon which simplifications you make) is upwards of 12,000 per year.
Guild was deliberately limiting production. Whether that was a good or bad decision has been discussed before and will be discussed again, I'm sure. I may be too nuanced in my reading of the press release but I wonder if the problem was either that they were not selling enough guitars at the chosen price point or they realized just how far away they were from the one guitar per day per worker goal and were unwilling to make the changes necessary to achieve that standard. Sure they can crank out 5000 D25's but what do they sell for and which Fender brands or lines get cannibalized if they do so?
davismanLV
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AMEN, BROTHER!! I'm with you on this. I edited your quote to reflect the fourth country that Ralf pointed out. Hope that's okay.....
Makes you wonder what the cost of moving alone has had on their bottom line. I was gonna say more but.... I think it's all been said. Do corporations ever look at historical data and see that what they've done before has had a serious negative impact and then decide they shouldn't do that any more? Apparently not.
From the article posted on the "official release thread"
"At Fender, Mr. Mendello doesn’t rule out a future public offering. Fender might try again sooner rather than later, because about $237 million of its $246 million in long-term debt will be due in 2014".
Evidently the check is not in the mail.
"At Fender, Mr. Mendello doesn’t rule out a future public offering. Fender might try again sooner rather than later, because about $237 million of its $246 million in long-term debt will be due in 2014".
Evidently the check is not in the mail.