WTB In Need of Expert's Advice

Dear people of LTG

During the last couple of days I have rapidly gotten infected with the Guild virus. Symptoms are primarly wanting to enlarge my collection of fine Guild electric guitars from the pre-Fender era, neglecting everyday duties and messing up priorites. This condition is caused by the recent purchase of a wonderfull Nightbird X-2000 that outshines everything that has gone before (guitar-wise at least).

Things get more complicated since I'm forced to play lefthanded guitars due to a malfunctionable pinky on my left hand. The choice is therefore very limited.

Searches on Ebay and gbase did not give any useful result, whereas on reverb I found the following three listings:

https://reverb.com/item/27780530-guild-starfireiv-sf4-lefty-1976

https://reverb.com/item/27780106-guild-x175-sb-lh-lefty-1978

https://reverb.com/item/27780117-guild-sf4-starfire-iv-lefty-1979

So except for the ridiculously overpriced claim, what do you think? Should I consider the ride of approximately seven hours and go take a look? What reasonable price would you offer?

Thank you for your very much valued considerations and advice!

Please let me know if yourself or someone you know would like to sell a fine left handed Guild electric Guitar of any model (pre-Fender). Every tip is highly appreciated. You will be rewarded with my great gratitude, and a donation to this amazing forum when a purchase is completed

I wish you all a wonderfull day.

Why "pre-Fender"? Fender did not change anything as far as production went, and some of the finest guitars that Guild made were under Fender ownership.

Holy smokes, those are expensive! All look clean and should be good guitars. Man, I never know what to think about the left-handed market. I can see charging a premium if you're willing to sit on your inventory a long time -- limited supply, limited demand. OTOH, you're in the position, as a buyer, to wave some cash around and adopt a take it or leave it attitude. The guy either takes the cash or rolls the dice on waiting for the next guy to come along, which could be months away. The trouble is, I think these things are something like 3-4x overpriced, so the old standard "$1,000 cash money, right here, right now" negotiating angle might not be close enough to get anywhere.

ruedi said:

Dear people of LTG

During the last couple of days I have rapidly gotten infected with the Guild virus. Symptoms are primarly wanting to enlarge my collection of fine Guild electric or guitars from the pre-Fender era,

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Not sure why you'd rule out "Pre-Fender"; Fender's purchase of Guild was finalized in November of '95 and there's many here who think some of Guild's finest product was produced during the '95-'01 time frame, and even the Corona-built product (especially Bluebirds) is highly regarded. (Ah, I see Default already chimed in about that, LOL!)
The only weakness I can recall hearing is that the Fender HB-1's are not everybody's cup of tea, but those are easily swapped and can even be retained if one wants to be able to return the guitar to original.
I don't know if they offered leftys in Corona ('02-'04) though, so that could definitely rule it out for you.
Main point is that if you're seeing the myth pop up that "Fender Guilds aren't as good", don't you believe a word of it.
It's most commonly propogated by sellers who want to enhance the value of the pieces they're selling, or cater to the myth, and in come cases they don't even realize the post '95 pieces they're offering are in fact technically "Fender Guilds."
Or if they do know it then they're guilty of disingenuous sales practices.
You may have a perfectly good reason to want to stay in the "pre-Fender" market, just wanted to be sure you had the straight scoop about exactly what "pre-Fender" is: pre-'96.
:friendly_wink:

As for those Starfires you've found, gonna let the far more knowledgable electric guys take over.

Those are all beautiful and priced easily double or more what they should be.

I think the "pre Fender" thing comes from two main ideas:

1) The idea Fender mucks up everything they touch.

2) That the first batch of Fender acoustics weren't that great (after the Westerly kit guitars). Acoustic folks, feel free to correct me there.

Electrics, though, are a different matter, and the Fender Corona-made Guilds are fabulous apart from the pickups.

Also, be advised that the Nightbird is a tough first example to have. Few guitars from anywhere are as well-made as a Nightbird.

You're completely right AI, I have fallen for the myth. At least I asked the right people, so thanks for the hint AI and Default and GAD! So let's boil it down to "U.S. made".

Concerning the left hand market, I'm not too sure of what to think either, kakerlak. I acknowledge the circumstance of higher development and production costs due to lower production quantities for the manufacturers, but otoh I do not want to be discriminated against just for being lefty. The secret to making a good deal on the vintage market is probably to have patience, negotiate well and this quantum of luck that we all need from time to time - in the end, not very different from the right handed vintage market at all. I am willing to pay maybe 10% more for a lefty guitar than for a righty in the same state, but I certainly will not fall for a rip off.

GAD said:

Also, be advised that the Nightbird is a tough first example to have. Few guitars from anywhere are as well-made as a Nightbird.

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GAD, was the Nightbird Guild's answer to a Les Paul? I was reading your article on them...well, skimming it really. I really like the carved spruce topped ones, they look like a handful but in a good way.

Oh, and I got to ask, Nightbird or S300AD?

ruedi said:

You're completely right AI, I have fallen for the myth. At least I asked the right people, so thanks for the hint AI and Default and GAD! So let's boil it down to "U.S. made".

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THERE ya go!
Another consideration my be that the younger they are, the better condition they're likely to be in.
And by the way it is "AL" as you originally thought but the "AI" (as in "Artificial Intelligence") has its own humorous connotations in my posting history so I didn't say anything at first...:friendly_wink:.

ruedi said:

Concerning the left hand market, I'm not too sure of what to think either, kakerlak. I acknowledge the circumstance of higher development and production costs due to lower production quantities for the manufacturers, but otoh I do not want to be discriminated against just for being lefty. The secret to making a good deal on the vintage market is probably to have patience, negotiate well and this quantum of luck that we all need from time to time - in the end, not very different from the right handed vintage market at all. I am willing to pay maybe 10% more for a lefty guitar than for a righty in the same state, but I certainly will not fall for a rip off.

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For reference, in the 2001 price list, one could order a lefty of any model electric guitar for $100 upcharge:
http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/files/Guild2001.pdf
I suspect a large reason for the often out-of-proportion pricing for leftys is their scarcity and suspect with Guilds at least the problem is even worse in Europe than the US, but we've seen a few lefty members finally achieve success with the same philosophy you've got.
It can work both ways, too: after all, how easy it to sell a lefty?
:friendly_wink:

AL... I already stopped counting my "D'oh" incidents on this forum, so please forgive me again

When it comes to selling a left handed guitar: As long as you can afford to wait, you will find a buyer (since there are not too many of us). I always orientate myself by the prices for normies and try to be fair, because I want to be treated that way too. As you pointed out, high quality vintage left handed instruments are rare and there are always buyers on the lookout. And reverb really made things easier and enlarges the choice, as long as you are willed to pay for international shipping and to buy your instrument unseen (which I actually try to avoid, but you know...)

ruedi said:

AL... I already stopped counting my "D'oh" incidents on this forum, so please forgive me again

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No worries!
And btw, with apologies for "buttinski", this question

ruedi said:

GAD, was the Nightbird Guild's answer to a Les Paul?

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is more complicated than you might suspect because the outline dates back to Guild's earliest days but the first solid body construction didn't occur until much later, as detailed in this old thread, post #9 in particular:
https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?159929-70s-M-75-Bluesbirds
GAD knows Les Pauls far better than I but I seem to recall that in fact original Les Pauls were solid bodies and chambering didn't occur until after Guild used it themselves..then there's the question of "intent":
Did Guild make the Aristocrat look like a Les Paul on purpose, as in "answer to the Les Paul"?
Did Gruhn intend the Nightbird to be an "answer to the Les Paul"?
Actually it wouldn't surprise me if the answer was "yes" in both cases, if "answer" means "reply (to the concept)" and not just "copy".
We know they were never intended to be copies, much like S-100's were never meant to be copies of SG's.
And if GAD corrects me on any of this he's the better source.
Another thread with commentary about differences between Westerly and Corona Bluesbirds and even Nightbird, but if anything I'd say the Bluesbird was the more direct reply to the Les Paul, as opposed to the Nightbird:
https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?180320-Bluesbird-P-90-chambers

And I'm pretty darn sure GAD has posted pics of chambering in Les Pauls that showed radically different shapes that apparently were aimed primarily at reducing weight as opposed to enhancing top resonance.

Yeah, the single-cut shape has been around forever, and regardless of who or what came first, the common perception is that the Bluesbird was the answer to the Les Paul.

I believe the idea of chambering from Guild's point of view was mostly acoustics, but I don't have anything to back that up and would defer to Hans. Actually, I'd always defer to Hans, but that's worth repeating every now and again.

From what I know of Les Pauls, the idea of weight relief came about because they were using less desirable wood that was just stupidly heavy. They also had the Cloud-9 which was chambered like a Bluesbird.

I'd say that the Nightbird is more of a high-end Bluesbird, but even that's not quite right since the first Nightbirds had spruce tops. The ones with maple tops, though - woof. Here's my '97 Bluesbird and then a Nightbird GG in maple. You can see the shape has some subtle differences. The internals are different as well, but really the Nightbird is just in another league.






Remember that the last "Bluesbird" before the '97 was really the M75 that looked like this:





Remember, too, that while the Nightbirds were being sold, (so far as I'm aware) there were no Bluesbirds in the catalogs other than the Setzer Bluesbird in '88 that looked like this and was a very different guitar.



So far as I'm aware the Bluesbird made its comeback in 1997.



Back to the Corona thing, some of the Corona Bluesbirds are freaking amazing, and remember they don't have HB1s so that's a non-issue, though the P90s are insanely hot and often get swapped.







OK. I'm done. :emmersed:

Here's the Les Paul weight-relied vs. Chambering pic that Al mentioned.

Westerly Wood said:

Oh, and I got to ask, Nightbird or S300AD?

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I'd have to have both. :emmersed:

The lavaburst Nightbird is the one I nicknamed "The best guitar I've ever played" That's this one:



And yet, I ended up selling it back to Steve who then sold it on after offering it back to me. I've got a small pile of Nightbirds right now, one with that same finish but with flamed maple that will likely get the set of NOS 4-wire HB1s I've been hoarding forever.

Good morning. I offered 2200 US Dollar cash (and personal pick-up) for the X-175, let's see what happens.

https://reverb.com/item/27780106-guild-x175-sb-lh-lefty-1978

This guy sure does have a fine collection, and he does not seem to be in need to sell, so I'm slightly pessimistic.

I just dropped the offer in a sentence, having abstained stories of how i fell in love with exactly this guitar and explaining how and why I fatefully needed and deserved it and how my grandfather already possessed such a model before getting eaten by a tiger while playing it (which would be a lie anyway).

ruedi said:

Good morning. I offered 2200 US Dollar cash (and personal pick-up) for the X-175, let's see what happens.

A fair offer and wishing you will be the new owner.



https://reverb.com/item/27780106-guild-x175-sb-lh-lefty-1978

This guy sure does have a fine collection, and he does not seem to be in need to sell, so I'm slightly pessimistic.

I just dropped the offer in a sentence, having abstained stories of how i fell in love with exactly this guitar and explaining how and why I fatefully needed and deserved it and how my grandfather already possessed such a model before getting eaten by a tiger while playing it (which would be a lie anyway).

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Sorry about your grandfather, probably playing the old hit by Buck Owens, "I've Got a Tiger by the Tail" when attacked by tiger.

Stuball48 said:

Sorry about your grandfather, probably playing the old hit by Buck Owens, "I've Got a Tiger by the Tail" when attacked by tiger.

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No, it was "I'm a Tiger" by Lulu, so you can't really blame the tiger for his deed.



Now my ears bleed a little.

Fun by site, I often came across such heartbreaking stories when selling gear, usually combined with a ridiculously low offer

ruedi said:

I offered 2200 US Dollar cash (and personal pick-up) for the X-175, let's see what happens.

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Good luck! It's always interesting to see left-handed models, I had never seen a LH X-175 before.

Remember our discussion about the truss rod cover? This guitar has a correct left handed TRC but now clearly wrongly installed upside down!



Ralf

SFIV1967 said:

Good luck! It's always interesting to see left-handed models, I had never seen a LH X-175 before.

Remember our discussion about the truss rod cover? This guitar has a correct left handed TRC but now clearly wrongly installed upside down!

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Thank you Ralf! Yes I remember of course. When I put the cover back on my nightbird after adjusting the truss rod after string change, i briefly put it on the other way, just to check if there was enough room for it between the tuning post bezels. There was, so AL is proven wrong with his assumption

Arme Tiger - hat sicher schwere Magenschmertzen von Gitarre.