New Guild D-25

midnightright

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I’d imagine that this has been brought up at some point in the past, but what would be the logic behind not reintroducing a new D-25 with the archback design that was supposedly one of, if not the, most popular selling models during the Westerly R. I. time?

Money? Sales? Inability to execute design? Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think anybody has produced it since then (2001).

Maybe it’s on the docket! :)
 

fronobulax

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CMG/Oxnard has been pretty close mouthed about their intentions to the point that if they don't say it at NAMM it is just speculation on our part. In that spirit (in other words there is almost nothing to back up my opinion) I will note that they did say while the Oxnard factory was under construction and ramping up that they were considering producing many traditional, iconic or historical Guild models but there was no timeline for what and when. So the failure to reintroduce a D-25 could be "not yet" rather than "no". Given the history of the Oxnard factory, I would say they are capable of making just about anything they want to. So I see two possibilities. One is that given constraints on Oxnard production capacity and their understanding of the market they can make more money faster producing something else. (Obviously you would debate that point, otherwise you would not ask the question :) ). The other possibility is that they expect to fill the D-25 niche with something built overseas. (Again, people at LTG may define the D-25 niche in terms where it cannot be filled by overseas production with an entry level target price).
 

midnightright

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Ah, that makes sense! In other words, they’d have to sell a lot more them to make as much profit as other options... It’s just something I’ve always heard, in regards the popularity and sales of that model during that time.

I actually didn’t get into acoustic playing until they were right about to close up shop (late summer 2001). So, I have no first hand knowledge of anything! But I thank you for your best educated guess, fronobulax!
 

adorshki

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Ah, that makes sense! In other words, they’d have to sell a lot more them to make as much profit as other options... It’s just something I’ve always heard, in regards the popularity and sales of that model during that time.
I agree with Frono but some historical context only furthers his case, I think:
Quote in '97 Guild Gallery says "More D25's have been sold than any other model"
Suspect it's remained true until now given the relatively very low production of all the subsequent US factories, and the vast majority of those are undoubtedly the arched back spruce top version by virtue of having the longest time in production.
I also suspect D4's are rolled into that figure because they even shared the same s/n sequence starting in '94.
On paper there's no way to tell one from the other.

Corona's D25 ('02-'03) was a return to the original all-hog flatback formula, and was then replaced by the GADD25 (same formula) first appearing in the Spring '04 price list.
The other GAD model was the GADF30.
Both of those were entry level guitars in the US and apparently Fender believed they couldn't get enough return on 'em at domestic production costs.
And given that that niche is now dominated by off-shore models I suspect that's why it remains an MIC only offering, for now at least, as Frono explained.
Indeed the Chinese line only started offering archback options within the last 2 years or so, so it's still relatively new for them as the archbacked D240e.
There's even a D260e "Deluxe" version featuring striped ebony body along with the flatback D120 original all-hog formula.
What impresses me even as a US-built loyalist is the actual variety of build formulas coming out of Grand Reward (the factory), although I'm sure CMG is calling the shots.
I'm positive that kind of variety simply couldn't be produced cost-effectively here.
The next rung up the ladder is the D40 and they have built that one here in 2 versions.
It occurs to me the F30 is also still in that same position as the D25, no current US-built versions but at least 3 different MIC versions.
I gotta wonder if these MIC D25 and F30 versions are actually considered the backbones of the line going back to day 1?
Not to say there could never be some US-built runs but they may be a little hard-pressed to come up with something "different" enough to justify the cost differential.
 

adorshki

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I also suspect D4's are rolled into that figure because they even shared the same s/n sequence starting in '94.
On paper there's no way to tell one from the other.
Is this really true? Or if it's a "suspect", it's based on what?

Yes it's really true, just look at the s/n charts.
http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/history_of_your_guild.pdf
:friendly_wink:
If all you had was the s/n you wouldn't be able to tell if the guitar was a D25 or a D4.
As for whether they were ID'd on the shipping records, I can say that when I emailed Fender about my F65ce years ago, the customer service rep was able to identify the other guitars that were shipped to Guitar Showcase with it, by model and s/n.
So it appears they were identifiable on shipping records, but that seems like it would have been a cumbersome way to count D25's sold instead of the s/n lists.
SO that's why I only suspect the total count of D25's sold includes D4's.
Also don't forget years ago I'm pretty sure it was Hideglue who said all D4's started off as D25's, which seemed backwards to me at the time but I think I get why he said it now.

Can't find that one just now but see also the quote from Workedinwesterly in post #2, here:
https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?165197-D25-vs-D4-whats-the-difference/page3

"Originally Posted by workedinwesterly
Yes the D-4 and the D-25 were the same guitar. If the guitar had any blemishes that the hand rub could not hide then it became a D-25 with a myriad of finish options."


That's kind of simplifying it but I think the primary point is that the bodies were all started at the same time using the same bucks and body and top woods and bracing and at some point the ones intended to become D25's went on to get front/back binding and headstock overlays (on the NT's only , I've discovered since 2011); don't know if the fretboards were actually different early on (morado for D4's, EIR for D25's) or if the D25 had been getting morado for a while and spec just wasn't updated in catalogs etc until '01.
On top of all that the D4's actually became the poster child for unusual topwood and finish colors late in the game and eventually got everything D25's got, have even seen one with a headstock overlay, clearly labeled D4.
Anyway by around '98 the lines between 'em were so blurry I suspect there really was no difference between 'em and indeed Guild even introduced the DV25 flatback in the '00 catalog, as if they needed to do something different to revamp the model..which also seemed pointless since they'd dropped the DV6 and brought back the D40....then again those had AA tops so maybe it was actually a D35 revival?
Oh what a tangled web....
:glee:
 
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marius

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I’d imagine that this has been brought up at some point in the past, but what would be the logic behind not reintroducing a new D-25 with the archback design that was supposedly one of, if not the, most popular selling models during the Westerly R. I. time?

Corona's D25 ('02-'03) was a return to the original all-hog flatback formula, and was then replaced by the GADD25 (same formula) first appearing in the Spring '04 price list.

I understand the OP was asking about the arch-backed D25, but I'd say that the current D-20 is CMG's take on the D25 (circa '68-'73). The current website describes the D-20 as "First introduced to the Guild line in 1968" so I'd call it another return to the original all-hog flatback formula and wouldn't hold my breath for an arch-backed variant.
 
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dreadnut

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I'm still jonesing for a cherry '80's D-15.

Back when I got my D25M, it was Guild's entry level dread. $300 with hard shell case. That was '76 - 44 years ago. Just played another gig with it tonight. Made to be played!
 

Bernie

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Maybe the owners are still learning their various models - there are so many of them... By the time year 2025 comes, they will possibly launch a 2025 D-25 special run :smile-new:. If you don't have the patience to wait, I suggest someone could offer them a free subscription to LTG so they can learn quicker from the experts in here...A special Adorshki edition would be a good idea I think.:smile-new: I'd vote for it !
Still impressed with the knowledge in here.
 

adorshki

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I understand the OP was asking about the arch-backed D25, but I'd say that the current D-20 is CMG's take on the D25 (circa '68-'73). The current website describes the D-20 as "First introduced to the Guild line in 1968" so I'd call it another return to the original all-hog flatback formula and wouldn't hold my breath for an arch-backed variant.

Very good point! I got so focused on the fact the vast majority of 'em were archbacks that I forgot that Oxnard does in fact offer the "original formula" version.
and wouldn't hold my breath for an arch-backed variant.
You also made me remember there's another critical detail involved:
They gotta have the dreadnought outline archback die to make the backs.
I've wondered over the last few years if they were actually still serviceable, or if maybe they got sent to China when GREE started offering archbacks.
We know Oxnard has the press but don't know if all the old dies used in Westerly through New Hartford were still serviceable or if they got sent elsewhere or simply "retired".
At this point I think China got or already had their own press with dies made for it.
But another missing candidate is the F40 family die(s).
So wonder if that's at least part of the reason for the absence of both platforms from US production?
I don't really have a clue but I suspect tooling up a die for either one could be a fairly costly project, given the durability required.

Maybe the owners are still learning their various models - there are so many of them... By the time year 2025 comes, they will possibly launch a 2025 D-25 special run :smile-new:. If you don't have the patience to wait, I suggest someone could offer them a free subscription to LTG so they can learn quicker from the experts in here...A special Adorshki edition would be a good idea I think.:smile-new: I'd vote for it !
Still impressed with the knowledge in here.

I 'preciate the compliments but I think Cordoba would rather not direct customers to the site, they may catch "vintage fever".
It was said by Fender around 10 years ago that the biggest competition for new Guilds is used Guilds.
By the same token I can understand that while they pay a little homage to heritage on the website, and in the re-issue electrics, they truly have their own agenda which is selling new instruments, and too much immersion in historical knowledge isn't necessarily compatible with promoting new instruments.
Knowing that they do actually peek in here from time to time though, I will continue to lobby for the return of"the One True F40."
:biggrin-new:
 
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midnightright

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its still hard for me to belive that it's been since the first year of the century that this has been built . Again, given its popularity ... most people I've encountered over the years who have any experience with the brand--first or second-hand -- usually have cited this model. Anyway, I can dream, or commission someone to do so (w/their own interpretation on the inspiration). It'll cost as much as a car, but might be cheaper than a time machine!
 

fronobulax

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its still hard for me to belive that it's been since the first year of the century that this has been built . Again, given its popularity ... most people I've encountered over the years who have any experience with the brand--first or second-hand -- usually have cited this model. Anyway, I can dream, or commission someone to do so (w/their own interpretation on the inspiration). It'll cost as much as a car, but might be cheaper than a time machine!

On the contrary, when FMIC owned Guild and discussed "new" models or reviving old designs they were explicit in saying that the biggest competition a new Guild had in the marketplace was a vintage Guild. So it is quite easy for me to believe there has been a rational, financial explanation for not reintroducing any flavor of the D-25 during the past couple of decades, because of its popularity.

I don't know what you would pay for a car but even if you are talking a barely reliable used beater you are talking at least $3,000 in my market. I suspect that if you put the word out that you were looking for a very special D-25 and offering $3K you would have lots of choices. :)
 

midnightright

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I should have said that it's been since the close of that factory, nearly 20 years, that one could walk into a store & buy a brand new example (less n.o.s., I saw a "new" D4 with severely cracked/checked fingerboard hanging in an unhumidified shop in 2005. Believe me, I was tempted
 

midnightright

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Can anyone point out any structural differences, in terms of build, between today’s D 20 & yesterday’s (the one it’s modeled after—early 70’s)? I see the finish, and potentially color (the one I had was really red; Tom Petty, so). I’m just thinking of a plan B, should A fall through.., Thanjs A lot!! :D

And I will say that I am really pleased with my D 20. Very nice guitar!!

- - - Updated - - -

I understand that the color is primarily cosmetic. At least I think it is! ;)
 
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