Guild GAD Question

Brucebubs

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This Guild question came up on another forum.

Who owns the 'Made in China' Guild GAD guitars now, is it Cordoba Guitars or is it still owned by Fender?
 

fronobulax

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This Guild question came up on another forum.

Who owns the 'Made in China' Guild GAD guitars now, is it Cordoba Guitars or is it still owned by Fender?

Cordoba makes/owns the Guilds now being made in China.

The "name" for the MIC product has varied. The first ones were the GADs - Guild Acoustic Design. That name was dropped and there were some model name conventions that indicated MIC. Might have been a couple rounds of that and then the MIC instruments were part of the Westerly Collection and are currently sold under that name. Only mentioning because to some people GAD only refers to the first generation of MIC and there were a couple more before CMG got involved.
 

chazmo

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Hi: The MIC acoustics are currently known as "Westerly Series." The entire Guild brand is part of Cordoba now, Bruce, no matter where they're made. Fender is not involved any more.
 

Brucebubs

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Thanks guys, excellent replies, I thought it was all owned by Cordoba but I just wanted to check.
 

adorshki

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Cordoba makes/owns the Guilds now being made in China.

The "name" for the MIC product has varied. The first ones were the GADs - Guild Acoustic Design. That name was dropped and there were some model name conventions that indicated MIC.
Technically both series were "GAD"'s, they were still listed that way in the 2013 catalog. The numbering convention introduced in the 2nd generation ca 2011 made it easy to ID models built to a slightly different (largely cosmetic) set of specs.
Readily ID'd by the insertion of the "1" in front of the traditional model number, ie "F1512".
Think only those 2 generations were made, at least only those 2 numbering conventions were used and any changes were not deemed significant enough to warrant a new system.
CMG actually retained some of that system for the Westerly Collection, like the F150 and F1512.
They appeared to actually expand on it when devising their own model numbering system announced in 2015 I think it was:
http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/guild-acoustic-naming-structure.pdf

Hi: The MIC acoustics are currently known as "Westerly Series." The entire Guild brand is part of Cordoba now, Bruce, no matter where they're made. Fender is not involved any more.
Well, "Westerly Collection" to be precise, but there-in is also a pitfall for potential confusion with original Westerly builds, something that caused some irritation here when first announced.
And not chiding you for the slight "semantic" mix-up ("Series" vs. "Collection" is completely understandable), but just see it as another example of how that simple little "close but not quite" usage could easily become verbally short-handed to just "Westerly" in the larger world outside this forum.
Thus the understandable irritation of many here (myself included, now), since that would tend to dilute the real Westerly built heritage and model detail history.
Might already be happening, might be why the question is being asked about "GAD"'s but not the "Westerly Collection"?
 

adorshki

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This Guild question came up on another forum.

Who owns the 'Made in China' Guild GAD guitars now, is it Cordoba Guitars or is it still owned by Fender?

In typical "can't let it drop" fashion, I'd just realized that perhaps the real question was whether or not Fender retained the rights to the "GAD" brand and I suspect they may have since they actually "invented" it.
Marketing and distribution for it was always handled by Fender Corporate, Guild US never touched 'em.
Even if that brand was sold along with the Guild intellectual properties, CMG obviously had reasons of their own to introduce their own brand for that product.
We HAVE determined that both the GAD guitars (were) and the Westerly Collection guitars are made by the same contract manufacturing entity in China, GREE, as evidenced by the identical inspection tags seen on both brands.
And to be fair, GMG has expanded the offering beyond what I would ever have anticipated, in fact I have to admit I see some of these models and think "Dang, I wish they'd make that a US-built!" as in the case of the OM240, which would have the specs of an arched back F30 if it had actually been built in Westerly RI.
And I don't think they ever did off the top of my head, at least, not for production. (!)
Reading between those lines I think CMG's unspoken master plan is to actually make the imports the centerpiece and innovation hotbed for the Guild Brand, and reserve US production capacity for higher-end models which can provide the profitability needed to keep Oxnard running.
Sort of like the old car manufacturer model of giving 'em a taste with Buick and dangling Cadillac as the aspirational purchase when one finally has the requisite ducats.
And I can't fault 'em for that, regardless of my being a US-built loyalist.
 
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dreadnut

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I've always been of the opinion that offshore Guilds should have a different logo like my DeArmond.
 

fronobulax

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Marketing and distribution for it was always handled by Fender Corporate, Guild US never touched 'em.

All the available evidence suggests that everything Guild was sold and nothing was retained by FMIC.

At NH people were pretty fuzzy about whether they worked for Guild or FMIC. My recollection is that while the person who talked about design, woods and QC of MIC Guilds self identified as FMIC, the person who identified himself as Guild brand manager certainly claimed responsibility for MIC Guilds including getting them to dealers. Maybe the Guild brand manager, whose responsibilities included MIA Guilds was actually a FMIC employee but otherwise your statement needs some kind of caveats.
 

davismanLV

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Thanks guys, excellent replies, I thought it was all owned by Cordoba but I just wanted to check.
So it's good you got your answer..... but that doesn't stop Al...... he can fill a page, can't he?? :devilish::devilish:

Sometimes YES or NO is good enough..... and apparently, sometimes, not......
 

davismanLV

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Well, he does store a LOT of information and he packs it in very well. I just give him a hard time every now and again. We all have our roles to play on the forum, right? :highly_amused:
 

SFIV1967

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...is it Cordoba Guitars..?
I need to jump in now as well. "Cordoba Guitars" does NOT own Guild !!! People mix this up all the times...


"Cordoba Guitars" is simply a brandname like "Guild Guitars" and both are owned by "Cordoba Music Group" (CMG) in Santa Monica, CA !

CMG's brands include Cordoba Guitars®, Guild Guitars®, HumiCase®, DeArmond® as well as Savarez® strings and Aquila® strings.


Back to the GAD series: The GAD Series was discontinued in 2015 and replaced with the "Westerly Collection".



...the person who identified himself as Guild brand manager certainly claimed responsibility for MIC Guilds including getting them to dealers. Maybe the Guild brand manager, whose responsibilities included MIA Guilds was actually a FMIC employee...
Yes, Chris was an FMIC employee from 2012 (when he joined FMIC from Schertler) until the end of Guild in NH in 2014. Also Dave who joined FMIC from Guitar Center in 2005 was always a FMIC employee and run the Guild brand from 2007 to 2012, the Takamine brand from 2012 till November 2014 and afterwards he was Manager of the Gretsch Product Development team, all for FMIC.

Ralf
 
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adorshki

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Well, he does store a LOT of information and he packs it in very well.
Imagine what my post count would be if I broke some of the novelettes into bite-size pieces...
:glee:
I just give him a hard time every now and again. We all have our roles to play on the forum, right? :highly_amused:
Me Tarzan, you Puck.
:tongue-new:
Thanks, Ralf!! Clear as a bell!! :encouragement:
What Puck said.
:tongue-new:
 
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adorshki

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Maybe the Guild brand manager, whose responsibilities included MIA Guilds was actually a FMIC employee but otherwise your statement needs some kind of caveats.

Fair enough. (And I don't mind the "challenge", I'll be first to admit my memory just ain't what it used to be anymore :smile:)
But thanks to Ralph for the clarification of corporate chain of responsibility. I'm not sure I could have found that info.
I meant only specifically what I said: "Guild USA never touched 'em"
Fender handled shipping from port to warehouse and from warehouse to retailers. They never passed through US Guild factories, and in fact the Guild US factories couldn't do warranty work on 'em either.
Warranty claims were handled directly by Fender.
And it may be recalled that Fender's preferred warranty fulfilment method was replacement which was specifically spelled out as being at their discretion in the warranty.
I admit I don't recall what happened to the warranty issue with GADs, whether Cordoba acquired that responsibility or not, although I remember the question coming up, but it might be an indicator of whether or Fender actually retained the GAD intellectual property rights.
There was also the Arcos series which carried Guild's name but I believe Fender retained warranty responsibility for those for sure, small as it was.
 
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fronobulax

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At some point trying to glean importance out of the distinction between Guild and FMIC is a meaningless exercise. The distinction certainly existed in consumer facing branding and marketing but are the internal corporate dynamics important? Probably not.

:)


Perhaps an overreaction on my part but I lived through the purchase of Fender by CBS and listened to idiots who insisted an amp was demonstrably inferior because it had been sold after the sale to CBS, even if it had been completed and shipped to the dealer well before.
 

adorshki

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At some point trying to glean importance out of the distinction between Guild and FMIC is a meaningless exercise. The distinction certainly existed in consumer facing branding and marketing but are the internal corporate dynamics important? Probably not.

:)

Agreed, but I have a pending post about what I suspect the actual origins of the GAD brand may be, and the MIC owner contingent here may appreciate it.
It will also explain why I thought Fender may have actually retained that brand's intellectual property (Blueprints) because I believe technically they may have considered those prints to be their corporate property as distinct from Guild property.
Stay tuned.
:smile:
Perhaps an overreaction on my part but I lived through the purchase of Fender by CBS and listened to idiots who insisted an amp was demonstrably inferior because it had been sold after the sale to CBS, even if it had been completed and shipped to the dealer well before.
No snark brandished, no offense taken, :smile:
Indeed I recall that same "myth"(in the technical sense of the word as being rumors that take on a life of their own whether true or not) from my own high school days when my buddy had his CBS Strat p/ups rewound.
It was said CBS had cut back on p/u windings in an economy move.
 

F312

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OK so it's 'Cordoba Music Group' not Cordoba Guitars according to Ralf not Ralph.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK9odsWwfIo

Ralph
[/FONT]
 
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