Shipping Inquiries Per Purchases

midnightright

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Do you generally ask who the seller uses to ship their instruments if it is not already stated in the ad? I see a lot of instances where this is not declared (“I will ship with tracking, etc.”)

And I wonder if it has something to do with the ability to use a more economical route, should a lower price be negotiated...

I haven’t run into it much, but I gather if I got a better deal (as the buyer), that’d be one way to recover some of the funds.
 

geoguy

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Sure, that's a fair question, in my opinion.

Some buyers might have a preference for (or against) certain shippers, based on previous experience.
 

adorshki

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Another thing that occurs to me is that not all sellers are fully conversant with proper packaging;
Fist and foremost remove the endpin!
Second, there's plenty of folks here who're wary of shipping during these cold winter months due to concerns about finish checking from extreme low temps.
While the damage is normally associated with too-rapid exposure too warm air when a newly arrived guitar is opened up without acclimatizing, some folks believe simple low extreme temps can cause it too.
I have a suspicion it may also depend on the thickness and age of the NCL used, and that newer formulas have more plasticizers which lower the potential for that specific type of damage.
Ideally, case wrapped in bubble wrap and then in side shipping box provides modicum of insulation.
NO bubble wrap inside case, it can react with nitro.
Otherwise my memory of anecdotal reviews is that although all 3 of the big carriers (FedEx, UPS, USPS) have goofed at least once with somebody's instrument, I think USPS actually has lowest number of reported incidents.
You might want to check with Richardp69 who's got a LOT of experience with shipping (and receiving) instruments.
 

Cougar

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Do you generally ask who the seller uses to ship their instruments....

Not really. Even if there's a "make offer" for the guitar, shipping is not typically negotiated. When I sell, I usually make shipping a flat rate (for the continental U.S.), and that flat rate is a lot lower now that I've discovered reverb's print label shipping deal, which is at least half of that it would cost otherwise, whether it's USPS, FedEx, or UPS....
 

JF-30

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I've shipped many a guitar and usually go with USPS. Just shipped a D-18 with Geib case last week and it cost $65, cheap as possible with insurance for the full value ($1700). I never remove the end pin and have never been asked to. I do slack strings, cause I bought a ES-335 from Sweetwater once and they didn't and the headstock came snapped. In my experience most times it gets to the destination a few days earlier that estimated by the PO.
 

adorshki

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I've shipped many a guitar and usually go with USPS. Just shipped a D-18 with Geib case last week and it cost $65, cheap as possible with insurance for the full value ($1700). I never remove the end pin and have never been asked to.
Memory says I've seen at least 3 or 4 personal experience reports here over the years, one good bang on the end of the case and the pin can crack/impact the end block (and sides along with it).
"FYI".
 

midnightright

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Oh my! That’s a lot of good answers and information in not a lot of time... You folks are good! I should have noted, it was listed with “free shipping.”

Anyway, does anybody know how accurate the tracking is these days with USPS. I live in a Siberia-like climate; & it’d be nice to know which day it’ll show.

And yes, adorshki, I have very direct knowledge of the wreckage that can occur when that impact happens. . . (Excellent stuff on the packing tips though: still never done it myself!)
 

fronobulax

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Generally it is the seller's responsibility to ship and their liability if something happens in shipping. If the buyer makes a shipping suggestion and there is a problem then the seller may be able to shift some of the liability. There are various reasons a seller may choose a shipper ranging from corporate discount to free pickup to convenient location to "brother-in-law" works there. These often have no impact on anything the buyer can observe so it shouldn't matter to the buyer. When I was doing a reasonable amount of shipping (not guitars) I had my preferred shippers, accounts set up, pickups arranged and was not really interested in the buyer's suggestion of shipper. When shipping as an individual and not a business I'll listen to a buyer's suggestion but that may shift costs.

There was a time when eBay sellers would offer a $10 item for $.01 plus $9.99 shipping. That was a ploy to get around the amounts eBay looked at to determine commissions but it worked for the seller because their shipping expenses were closer to $3.00. Shipping was not negotiable for them. In more recent times you still see something similar if the buyer's state collects sales tax on the item price but not on the shipping.
 

fronobulax

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Anyway, does anybody know how accurate the tracking is these days with USPS. I live in a Siberia-like climate; & it’d be nice to know which day it’ll show.

default has boots on the ground experience but the answer depends in part what type of handling was paid for.

It may have been an aberration but at least once my USPS tracking said something had been picked up, but no more. It was delivered, I saw the carrier scan it while standing on my porch and about 15 minutes later I got a text saying it had been delivered. When I looked back at the tracking it looks like it had been scanned at pickup and on delivery but at none of the intermediate steps.
 

midnightright

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Thanks for all that knowledge, fronobulax! I never knew about the liability aspect. In any case, I bought the guitar (not a Guild, unfortunately—I wanted to/I tried to..) & it’s coming UPS. So, we’ll see what happens! Thanks everyone. You’re all awesome-
 

twocorgis

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I've shipped many a guitar and usually go with USPS. Just shipped a D-18 with Geib case last week and it cost $65, cheap as possible with insurance for the full value ($1700). I never remove the end pin and have never been asked to. I do slack strings, cause I bought a ES-335 from Sweetwater once and they didn't and the headstock came snapped. In my experience most times it gets to the destination a few days earlier that estimated by the PO.

“Never remove the end pin”, on an acoustic? Yikes! Always remove the end pin, unless it has a 1/4” output jack instead of one, and then pad the hell out of the area. Sounds like you’ve been lucky so far.
 

midnightright

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Also happy to announce, that with any luck, I should be getting back into the Guild game. It'll be nice after such a long time to be swimming in such sweetness again. And to get a return on my investment. Though admittedly, that is the least of my worries... I don't want to jink it -- So, fingers crossed!

Alternatively, does buying from private sellers on Reverb who don't offer return policies (sold, "As-Is"), give anybody pause? I can certainly understand it from a seller's POV, and I hear that Reverb typically has the buyer's back. But perhaps this is simply when the item is, "not as described." I got lucky with my most recent purchase, though it was a bit of a leap of faith!
 

adorshki

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Alternatively, does buying from private sellers on Reverb who don't offer return policies (sold, "As-Is"), give anybody pause?
Yep, gives lots of folks pause.
Only folks I know of who it doesn't are the ones who have a good handle on cost of potential repairs (and a reliable go-to for 'em), and can budget that in to their offer.
And they usually have some flexibility about going over the budget because they like the piece itself, as opposed to intending to flip it and thus worrying about taking a loss.
I can certainly understand it from a seller's POV, and I hear that Reverb typically has the buyer's back. But perhaps this is simply when the item is, "not as described."
To be clear I don't do any buying/selling on net (of instruments, that is) but I thought that was pretty universal across all the platforms.
I've also seen issues of un-shipped items and other issues related to non-performance of seller resolved in buyer's favor.
But "As-is" is pretty airtight as long as it's shipped and delivered.

I got lucky with my most recent purchase, though it was a bit of a leap of faith!
Good luck with the new one pending!
 

richardp69

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I list all my gear on Reverb with a No Returns" policy. Now, to be clear, I will accept a return from almost anybody for any good reason and my 100% positive feedback on both Major selling sites confirms that I look out for the buyer. And, I really and truly do. But as much as many want to trash sellers on Reverb/Ebay etc. (and sometimes with good cause) it is my opinion that there are buyers that can be just as horrible as sellers. When you have an open, return for any reason you want policy it seems to bring out the really crappy buyers. They can return the guitar because the sky is blue even though others think it's grey. If there's an issue with the guitar then absolutely return it and most reasonable sellers won't have an issue with that. But if for example, someone returns a guitar because they thought it would sound different well screw that. Do your damned homework before you put everybody thru all that.

Here's an absolute honest, did in fact example of how ridiculous some buyers can be. I had a really nice PRS with P 90's (can't remember the model #) A guy bought it and paid right away. Two days after he received it he put in a return request. he admitted to me, in writing, that the only reason he bought it is because his guitar had been stolen and he needed a decent guitar for an upcoming gig. I complained to Ebay but because I had a return policy (at that time) the buyer had every right to return it for any reason. That one still pi--es me off.

So, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but keep in mind it's not always the seller who's lousy.
 

wileypickett

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I echo Richard's concerns, and I've wondered too how to deal with returns when you sell online including on LTG.

You want to be reasonable and fair of course, but if something is going to happen to a guitar, it's most likely going to happen in transit.

If I sell a guitar, I'd rather not have it in the hands of UPS, or FedEx, or whoever, any more than necessary. So when I sell stuff online, I too click the "No Returns" box, knowing that if the buyer has a legitimate issue, I'll most likely willingly accept the return, and Reverb and eBay will support the buyer in any case, unless there is obvious fraud or something like that. And I try to make my ads as comprehensive as possible, the photos complete and detailed. And I overpack the instruments before shipping.

But sometimes you just can't win. I sold a century-old banjo some years ago. The original neck had a dark spot on it, probably a partial knothole. It didn't effect anything -- the neck was as solid as a Louisville Slugger -- the knothole had been there for more than 100 years, it was pictured in the photographs, etc.

After getting it, the seller submitted a return request, and when I asked what the problem was, he said the neck had an "undisclosed imperfection"; when I asked what it was, he cited the partial knothole. I felt pretty sure the seller just didn't fall in love with the banjo and so was looking for any excuse to return it and this was the best he could come up with. I sighed and took it back.

A buyer of an old Hagstrom archtop I had, in nearly mint condition (also sold on eBay), claimed when he got it that the guitar was "a wreck," and that the damage didn't happen in transit, implying that I'd misrepresented it. He said he'd keep it, but he wanted a substantial refund on his purchase price. That raised red flags and in the process of trying to sort things out (this was in the early days of eBay), he offered to take the guitar to his local guitar repair shop, who would be unbiased and could confirm everything he claimed. I looked up the shop online. They'd been in business for 30 years, had a great rep, seemed completely kosher and unlikely to risk their reputation making a false evaluation. I agreed to call them.

When we talked, they described a litany of problems -- the top was collapsed, the braces were loose or missing, one of the pickups didn't work, and several other things were wrong with it. In the course of our conversation, I finally said, in exasperation, "I can't believe we're talking about the same guitar. What I sent this guy was a sunburst Hagstrom in nearly mint condition." There was a pause. Then the person I was speaking to shouted to whoever he shared the shop with, "Hey, was that Hagstrom a sunburst?" Longer pause. Then the reply, "Tell him we'll call him back."

Turned out the guy who bought my guitar had the same model Hagstrom as mine, but his was in terrible condition, and that was the one he gave to the shop for evaluation! The only thing was, his wasn't a sunburst. I still ended up having to take my guitar back (in spite of calling eBay, reporting the guy, and explaining what had happened), but the aggravation, time, and expense involved kind of sours you and makes you wary.

That said, most of my experiences on eBay have been positive, as have (almost!) all my experiences on LTG.

We had a flood in our house a year or so back and had to have all new floors put in. We have a small place, and in the course of moving (literally!) every single thing we own I began questioning the wisdom of having so many damn guitars!

So I have a bunch I'm looking to sell, including 20 or 30 Guilds. But I've been offering them mainly on my local Craigslist, where people can see a given instrument in person, both parties are satisfied before money changes hands, and the guitars aren't at the mercy of the shipping companies.

Glenn
 
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midnightright

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Wow adorshki! That’s a whole lot to think about that I had never even entertained before... So, thank you for your shared wisdom.

And I apologize if I came across as bashing sellers—I merely view everything through my perspective, which has only been on that side of things. I’d imagine, if you take for granted that there are more buyers than sellers (& I don’t know if that’s even true), there would at least be as many problematic buyers—if not plenty more—than sellers.

I know there are a lot of people who have a tremendous track record and history with successfully selling their gear. I don’t feel comfortable I’ve even begun to acquire the knowledge necessary to take that plunge, despite it being the best way to go about it.

This is why I have never sold a guitar anywhere but to a store (not even been intelligent enough to consign). I guess I like losing money! ;)
 

richardp69

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To be clear, I was certainly not referring to you. I was referring to the lousy population of both buyers and sellers (and it is quite large)
 

Br1ck

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Even when not shipping, I have pillow packs stuffed into old sox, and the compartment under the headstock filled with them. You can have a couple of string packs under it all. One case has a harmonica with carrier all padded between it and the headstock. It's the whiplash effect that can cause cracks, so firm support is warranted.
 

adorshki

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Wow adorshki! That’s a whole lot to think about that I had never even entertained before... So, thank you for your shared wisdom.
Yer welcome as always!
And I apologize if I came across as bashing sellers
Oh I don't think anybody actually took it that way.
Think they just wanted to give more insight into their personal selling philosophies.
I was just trying to be address that narrow question about "no returns" since it's mentioned as a flag to proceed with caution if at all around here, or when new folks are asking about "how to buy", a reurn policy is often mentioned as a "safety net".
And I just meant that technically "no returns" is "airtight" if a seller really wants to stick to it and isn't guilty of some over-riding breach of performance.
I think our guys just wanted to point out that from a seller's perspective it may not necessarily be binding but they list that way due to past unpleasant experiences.
That actually made me think I should have mentioned that very often this place right here is the best place to buy, but I had the impression you already had something lined up and were just trying to do due diligence about the terms of sale at this point.



I know there are a lot of people who have a tremendous track record and history with successfully selling their gear. I don’t feel comfortable I’ve even begun to acquire the knowledge necessary to take that plunge, despite it being the best way to go about it.
Richard was actually one of the guys I was thinking of when describing the guys "who have a good handle on cost of potential repairs (and a reliable go-to for 'em)", and bases his purchase more on how much he likes the piece than the bottom-line price: sometimes he'll go over his own budget for that reason.
But he also maintains an online store (I think primarily to facilitate rotating his inventory periodically) as opposed to being "dedicated" to turning a profit.
Believe this is his Reverb page:
https://reverb.com/shop/richards-geetar-bar
Thought GJmalcyon was actively thinning the herd a while ago, too.
Ah here we go, but don't know what current status is:
https://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/s...Guitars-from-the-Herd/page2&highlight=selling
And I'm sure it couldn't hurt to ask Glenn (Wileypickett) what he's got on the block!
:friendly_wink:
 

adorshki

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It's the whiplash effect that can cause cracks, so firm support is warranted.
That's how I first heard it many years ago, too, and it was said this is why Martin actually ships with strings at tension.
If they're completely slack the neck/headstock is allowed room to travel, the "whiplash effect".
A lot of folks seem to have a hard time grasping that and for them I say at least use reduced tension but definitely not completely slack.
 
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