New Hartford D50BS --question

bronzeback

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Guild moved to New Hartford in '09. I'd guess some of the Tacoma production made it over to the East Coast and got a New Hartford label before going to market? Wondering about my early '09 D50 Bluegrass Special. I've read some of the specs changed with the move (radius of the top, lighter build in general) Wondering if mine could be a Tacoma with a New Hartford label, or if all the New Hartford labels had the new specs? One giveaway may be the neck side strap button in the body of mine, which they did in Tacoma but did away with in New Hartford. Just curious really. Either way it's fantastic! Any clue?
 

JohnW63

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Interesting question. In the past, Guild seemed to use what labels they had on hand and didn't start using new factory ones until they ran out. At least that's what if feels like. I suppose, however, there could have been guitar ALMOST finished that did get shipped all the way from Washington to Connecticut, and then labeled. Guitars cost more to ship to the new place than guitars do, so it's less likely.
 

SFIV1967

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One giveaway may be the neck side strap button in the body of mine, which they did in Tacoma but did away with in New Hartford.
No. My mid 2010 made GSR F-30R has the strap button installed on the bass side of the body (with the internal wood block). That's how NH did it in the first years. At some point between 2010 and 2011 they stopped installing a strap button on the pure acustic models as far as I understood.

Just compare the rosette, the Tacoma made D-50 BGS had a different rossette from the New Hartford made D-50 BGS:

tacoma-guild-d50-3.jpg



image.jpg


Ralf
 
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chazmo

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Guild moved to New Hartford in '09. I'd guess some of the Tacoma production made it over to the East Coast and got a New Hartford label before going to market? Wondering about my early '09 D50 Bluegrass Special. I've read some of the specs changed with the move (radius of the top, lighter build in general) Wondering if mine could be a Tacoma with a New Hartford label, or if all the New Hartford labels had the new specs? One giveaway may be the neck side strap button in the body of mine, which they did in Tacoma but did away with in New Hartford. Just curious really. Either way it's fantastic! Any clue?
Bronzeback, New Hartford was building D-55s to cut their teeth in 2008. There weren't any production models from New Hartford until 2009, though, which was a clean cutoff from Tacoma, which was shut down right at the end of 2008. If you have a 2009 D-50, I think it's from New Hartford, not Tacoma. They would not have done what you described. The transition to the "new specs" that you talked about wasn't necessarily on day one of their production. New Hartford was using the treble-side strap button for a little while before they moved it to the bass-side of the neck.
 

fronobulax

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My recollection from LMG I is that pretty much nothing from Tacoma was shipped East. Specifically if it had a NH label then all the parts were made in NH and assembled there.

I'm not sure I would make any generalization about strap buttons on early NH production. They ended up only putting buttons on instruments with electronics under the belief that people who had factory electronics were more likely to play standing up but there was a lot of experimentation before they reached that conclusion.

We joke about Westerly production not always matching catalog specs but we forget about the NH ramp up. Basically they had a clean slate and were experimenting to see what they could build and how it would sell.
 

adorshki

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Guild moved to New Hartford in '09. I'd guess some of the Tacoma production made it over to the East Coast and got a New Hartford label before going to market?
Most definitely not.
It was liquidated through MIRC, not all of it "happily", either.



Interesting question. In the past, Guild seemed to use what labels they had on hand and didn't start using new factory ones until they ran out. At least that's what if feels like.
ONLY DURING THE HOBOKEN TO WESTERLY TRANSITION.
NOT SO for any of the successive moves.
I suppose, however, there could have been guitar ALMOST finished that did get shipped all the way from Washington to Connecticut, and then labeled. Guitars cost more to ship to the new place than guitars do, so it's less likely.
Corroborating Chaz's input, simply "No".
The only things I've seen that come "close" were early NH "idea" prototypes that obviously used existing Tacoma parts.
And seem to recall those didn't even get labels.
They DID ship "kits" of almost completed guitars from Westerly to Corona, but that was because the Corona builders had no experience with acoustic flat-top construction.
That wasn't the case in New Hartford: those guys already had a ton of experience building Ovations.

Wondering about my early '09 D50 Bluegrass Special. I've read some of the specs changed with the move (radius of the top, lighter build in general) Wondering if mine could be a Tacoma with a New Hartford label, or if all the New Hartford labels had the new specs? One giveaway may be the neck side strap button in the body of mine, which they did in Tacoma but did away with in New Hartford. Just curious really. Either way it's fantastic! Any clue?
Corroborating everybody else's input here on all those points matches my memories of posts and threads at the time.
One, thing though, I did think they had the specs already locked in when production started, because they had plenty of time to work 'em out.
And one member got a brand new F50 at an LMG as a warranty exchange for his Tacoma which was determined to have a flawed neck.
Because the construction and specs were so different that it wasn't possible to simply mount an NH neck on a Tacoma-built guitar.
"Read between those lines", as I like to say.
:friendly_wink:
 
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SFIV1967

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New Hartford was using the treble-side strap button for a little while before they moved it to the bass-side of the neck.
I think that would be funny both ways trying to mount the strap there! I guess you mixed both sides up...Unless you are a lefty trying to play a right handed guitar...

Lot's of great info folks thanks! Carry on.
So the rosette was clearly a NH one?

Ralf
 

bronzeback

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So the rosette was clearly a NH one?

Ralf

Yes, mine has the NH Rosette. The wood layer in the thickest circle is wider than Tacoma. Pickguard is different in NH too, extending to the 4th fret from the sound hole. She's a beauty, and a great counter balance to my Oxnard D40T.
 

fronobulax

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The only things I've seen that come "close" were early NH "idea" prototypes that obviously used existing Tacoma parts.
And seem to recall those didn't even get labels.

One of us is not remembering things correctly. My memory, based on LMG I and my visit to the prototype room at LMG III is that there were no Tacoma parts in New Hartford. Wood was initially cut in NH to specs developed at Tacoma but nothing that was actually cut or machined in Tacoma was shipped across country and used in an instrument.

Most "prototypes" did not get labels and many visited the bandsaw. The folks in NH generally knew what they wanted to make because they could mine Guild's history. But they were not certain how they could make it in the factory. So they would try to make a part or an instrument to a spec on the available tooling and adjust the spec or the tooling until they were happy. In the early years the only reason to make a prototype was to demonstrate that the exiting tooling could do the job. Later there were more "experimental" prototypes - can we make an acoustic bass? - but initially even if there were Tacoma parts, using them was a waste of time because the folks at NH knew how to build guitars. They were learning to build Guilds and recycling parts they had not made didn't help.

I've learned not to insist my memory is correct but it is different :)
 

chazmo

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^ ditto that.

There were, however, some things that made it from Tacoma to New Hartford. The electric bodies "in white" that were overseen by (I think) Donnie Wade in Tacoma era (actually made overseas) were used in a few of the GSR models a couple of years in on the New Hartford era. Also, we know the Westerly era (by way of California and then Washington) was also represented by the laminate press.
 

fronobulax

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^ ditto that.

There were, however, some things that made it from Tacoma to New Hartford. The electric bodies "in white" that were overseen by (I think) Donnie Wade in Tacoma era (actually made overseas) were used in a few of the GSR models a couple of years in on the New Hartford era. Also, we know the Westerly era (by way of California and then Washington) was also represented by the laminate press.

Yeah. I focused on guitar parts. The press is famous because it had been at Westerly. I didn't think of the pre-GSR bodies etc. because they predated Tacoma but if they had been stored there then I need to and an asterisk to my claim. Basic point holds, however :)
 

adorshki

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Yeah. I focused on guitar parts. The press is famous because it had been at Westerly. I didn't think of the pre-GSR bodies etc. because they predated Tacoma but if they had been stored there then I need to and an asterisk to my claim. Basic point holds, however :)
I'm remembering something like an F30 prototype that had the Contemporary style headstock faceplate, with the "script" logo.
Why I qualified 'em as "idea" prototypes, not "proof-of-concept" requiring production-machined parts and assembly but simply design exercises for aesthetic evaluation.
(Also distinct from the later F30 NAMM prototypes)
It was in a "for-sale" listing so it just occurred to me it's possible they were building these design concepts before the move formally took place or was completed.
There were some slightly odd shaped dreads coming up for a while, too.
Seem to recall Tacoma shaped p/g on one of 'em.
 

fronobulax

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I'm remembering something like an F30 prototype that had the Contemporary style headstock faceplate, with the "script" logo.
Why I qualified 'em as "idea" prototypes, not "proof-of-concept" requiring production-machined parts and assembly but simply design exercises for aesthetic evaluation.
(Also distinct from the later F30 NAMM prototypes)
It was in a "for-sale" listing so it just occurred to me it's possible they were building these design concepts before the move formally took place or was completed.
There were some slightly odd shaped dreads coming up for a while, too.
Seem to recall Tacoma shaped p/g on one of 'em.

You claimed something built in NH used "existing Tacoma parts". I disagree and you have not convinced me I am wrong in that disagreement. "parts" and "design" are not the same thing and we seem to be agreement that Tacoma designs were used in NH or influenced NH designs.

Since we are talking about the first year's of NH production I think your "idea" prototype does not apply. Guild had plenty of models they wanted to make in NH and they were explicit in saying at LMG I that they were starting out focusing on them.

To repeat with highlight added:

The only things I've seen that come "close" were early NH "idea" prototypes that obviously used existing Tacoma parts.

Change "parts" to "designs" and we are in agreement. But right now it seems only obvious to you :)
 

adorshki

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Change "parts" to "designs" and we are in agreement. But right now it seems only obvious to you :)

"Contemporary series headstock faceplate"
"Tacoma shaped p/g"
No snark intended, are those not parts?
Never intended to imply they were used or intended for use in production, just clarifying that somewhere along the line some stuff from Tacoma did make it to NH as Chaz confirmed.
 
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Westerly Wood

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"Contemporary series headstock faceplate"
"Tacoma shaped p/g"
No snark intended, are those not parts?
Never intended to imply they were used or intended for use in production, just clarifying that somewhere along the line some stuff from Tacoma did make it to NH as Chaz confirmed.

that would be similar as when parts from Hoboken can be found sporadically on the first year or two product of Westerly, like my TRC on the Br. the Br was built in Westerly plant, but the TRC was a Hoboken trc and possible other parts too. why would Guild throw anything out when it is perfectly serviceable? (rhetorical)
 

adorshki

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that would be similar as when parts from Hoboken can be found sporadically on the first year or two product of Westerly, like my TRC on the Br. the Br was built in Westerly plant, but the TRC was a Hoboken trc and possible other parts too. why would Guild throw anything out when it is perfectly serviceable? (rhetorical)
It's been said before that Al Dronge was notorious for insisting no good part be thrown away, but I heard things changed under Fender.
Lots of stuff got thrown away at close of Westerly for example.
When it came to Corona and Tacoma suspect maybe it was stuff that may have been selected by the guys like Tim Shaw for Tacoma and Dave Gonzales for NH who saw utility in having some of the light cheap-to-ship stuff on hand for their purposes.
In the case of actual superstructure parts like bracing/tops/sides/backs and even necks that may have been unused, can understand that if NH already knew significant spec changes were coming there'd be no point in saving 'em for possible production use.
 
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Westerly Wood

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well, i like to think the bridge on the Br is also Hoboken :)

why that matters? i cannot say...
 
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