Give me suggestions on players who have a good "groove".

JohnW63

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Here's the quick back story. My music instructor plays a 6 string bass. Very much Jazz based background. When we play songs in recitals or jam sessions, unless we have another bass player, when Aaron takes his turn at solos, which he does a lot of, the groove of the song drops away. He plays pretty far up the neck for his solos. So, after watching some video of Mark Lettieri , I realized Mark has the ability to lay down a good groove. It just makes it easy for others to play along with him. He's said he must have been a bass player in a previous life.

So, if if you have suggestions for players or bands that often have a good groove, swing beat, or play " behind the beat ", toss them my way. I figured the more I hear the better I can emulate it and, when my instructor goes into solo mode, I can carry the beat as a good rhythm guitarist should.

Here is Mark with a baritone electric:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6M-51TDu7E

Here is one where Mark sets up a groove and the other two players join in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yq3BmZ8OJ4

I just think it would be a very useful skill to be able to be able to fill in for the bass player when they are NOT being the foundation of the beat of the song.
 

walrus

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"Take Five" - Dave Brubeck Quartet. I just happen to be learning the chords for this, and also a solo for guitar. Just for fun, and also for the challenge - and it's a great song with a great groove!



And if you're interested, there are lots of youtube lessons and tabs for the main "groove" guitar chords...

walrus
 

gjmalcyon

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Stevie Ray Vaughan.

His lead playing is obviously other-worldly, but I'm finding myself listening more and more to him playing rhythm under his vocals.
 

wileypickett

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Booker T & the MGs. Great groove. I don't know that they invented it exactly, but they came to define what "behind the beat" is all about. Listen to Steve Cropper's guitar playing on "Green Onions" (1962) for instance.

I still enjoy their records. There's not a bad one in the bunch, and they hold up better than the efforts of some of their contemporaries.
 

Bernie

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First name that came to my mind was the late Wah Wah Waatson : considered by many as the master when I was a teen-ager, he had played with Herbie Hanock among many others I bet...
Don't know him too well but if you google his name you will find a few nice things at least.
There should be many more among the younger generation...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRe3ivxMPSc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfKehuq3a6A
 

Quantum Strummer

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Great examples so far. Check out Hendrix's deep cuts too. Jimi was at least as good a groove rhythmatist as a lead player. Check out Stone Free from The Jimi Hendrix Concerts CD (out of print but it's "out there" online) for one example. The same song from the newly remixed New Year's Eve/Day 1969/70 Fillmore East Concerts set is pretty darn good too. In fact there's lotsa fine Jimi rhythm work from those shows.

-Dave-
 

wileypickett

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Check out Stone Free from The Jimi Hendrix Concerts CD (out of print but it's "out there" online) for one example. The same song from the newly remixed New Year's Eve/Day 1969/70 Fillmore East Concerts set is pretty darn good too. In fact there's lotsa fine Jimi rhythm work from those shows.

-Dave-

I'm in the audience for the 4th and final set of the Band of Gypsys shows at the Fillmore. The 13-minute version of "Stone Free" that starts that set (Hendrix played for more than two hours, which I know because I taped the show and my two-hour cassette ran out before he did!) is one of my favorite Hendrix moments ever -- his solo on that version gives me goosebumps every time I hear it.

After the piece ends, as the audience breaks into noisy applause, Hendrix does a "WOOOH!" on his guitar, which was in response to my shouted "WOOOH!" at the end of the song. (He plays the same note that came from 17-year-old throat. I like to tell people that I dueted with Jimi!)

I've listened to the tape countless times over the years. But finally, 45+ years later, Experience Hendrix just issued a 5-CD set of the four shows. It's not quite everything (there are a couple songs missing from the show I was at, and a few from others as well I'm told), but it's great to finally have the bulk of it officially available and in fantastic sound.

There's a lot of stuff I listened to back then that I don't care about at all now, but my love of Hendrix is undiminished. I hear new things in his music all the time -- so musical, and such a sophisticated ear.

How did he accomplish all that he did in the short time he was on the planet?

Glenn
 

walrus

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I'm in the audience for the 4th and final set of the Band of Gypsys shows at the Fillmore. The 13-minute version of "Stone Free" that starts that set (Hendrix played for more than two hours, which I know because I taped the show and my two-hour cassette ran out before he did!) is one of my favorite Hendrix moments ever -- his solo on that version gives me goosebumps every time I hear it.

After the piece ends, as the audience breaks into noisy applause, Hendrix does a "WOOOH!" on his guitar, which was in response to my shouted "WOOOH!" at the end of the song. (He plays the same note that came from 17-year-old throat. I like to tell people that I dueted with Jimi!)

I've listened to the tape countless times over the years. But finally, 45+ years later, Experience Hendrix just issued a 5-CD set of the four shows. It's not quite everything (there are a couple songs missing from the show I was at, and a few from others as well I'm told), but it's great to finally have the bulk of it officially available and in fantastic sound.

There's a lot of stuff I listened to back then that I don't care about at all now, but my love of Hendrix is undiminished. I hear new things in his music all the time -- so musical, and such a sophisticated ear.

How did he accomplish all that he did in the short time he was on the planet?

Glenn

I love these kind of stories - very cool!

I have no answer to your question, he was simply way ahead of his time...

walrus
 

crank

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Here's the quick back story. My music instructor plays a 6 string bass. Very much Jazz based background. When we play songs in recitals or jam sessions, unless we have another bass player, when Aaron takes his turn at solos, which he does a lot of, the groove of the song drops away. He plays pretty far up the neck for his solos. So, after watching some video of Mark Lettieri , I realized Mark has the ability to lay down a good groove. It just makes it easy for others to play along with him. He's said he must have been a bass player in a previous life.

So, if if you have suggestions for players or bands that often have a good groove, swing beat, or play " behind the beat ", toss them my way. I figured the more I hear the better I can emulate it and, when my instructor goes into solo mode, I can carry the beat as a good rhythm guitarist should.

Here is Mark with a baritone electric:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6M-51TDu7E

Here is one where Mark sets up a groove and the other two players join in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yq3BmZ8OJ4

I just think it would be a very useful skill to be able to be able to fill in for the bass player when they are NOT being the foundation of the beat of the song.

I am trying ot understand. You are playing songs with guitars and bass and the bassist takes a solo while the guitars are playing rhythm? If I am getting this right, what are some of the songs that are being played.

I ask because I often weave rhythmic guitar lines that allow my bassist to take off a bit. And if there are multiple guitars playing the same rhythm there is a lot you can do.

Personally, I don't think the examples listed above cover what you are asking for ... How many bass solos do you hear with Hendrix and SRV?
 

fronobulax

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There is a reason why many bassists don't solo and those that do are accompanied only by the drummer. I understand you have to play the hand (band :) )you are dealt with.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I am trying ot understand. You are playing songs with guitars and bass and the bassist takes a solo while the guitars are playing rhythm? If I am getting this right, what are some of the songs that are being played.

I ask because I often weave rhythmic guitar lines that allow my bassist to take off a bit. And if there are multiple guitars playing the same rhythm there is a lot you can do.

Personally, I don't think the examples listed above cover what you are asking for ... How many bass solos do you hear with Hendrix and SRV?

John's goal, as I read it, is to better support other people's solos no matter what instrument they're playing. He cites solo bass as an example because it's something he has experience with.

-Dave-
 

Quantum Strummer

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There's a lot of stuff I listened to back then that I don't care about at all now, but my love of Hendrix is undiminished. I hear new things in his music all the time -- so musical, and such a sophisticated ear.

How did he accomplish all that he did in the short time he was on the planet?

Yup! He was an anomaly for sure.

-Dave-
 

adorshki

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Carlos Santana.
All the way back to "Evil Ways" on the first album.
Then "Oye Como Va" on Abraxas.
The syncopated percussion is a big element.
It's been said all great lead guitarists started off as great rhythm players, makes a lot of sense to me.
 

JohnW63

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Crank,

For the last year or more, I have been the only guitarist playing in the collection of songs my instructor has me in. The bulk of the students are much younger ( by a lot ) and don't play as well. We often have a previous student, turned friend that plays along, but he doesn't play loud so the beat loses something when Aaron takes a solo. Another adult aged student used to play with us, and he did more rock guitar stuff, like "Free Ride" by Edgar Winter or " Peace of Mind " by Boston. But, he hasn't been around for some time. In the context of our recitals, Aaron, my instructor, solos on pretty much every song, because we try to pick the songs by something that lets everyone playing take a crack at a solo. That's part of the learning goals for my "group" of students. Play in front of people. Solo over given chords or scales. With the younger kids, it's just them playing the best and he does the bass parts, or, the melody, if the student needs a melody for everyone to know what song they are playing the chords to.

As others have mentioned, I want to help make sure the groove is nice and present, no matter who is soloing or even if it's not a solo, and Aaron his helping with the melody, because we don't HAVE a vocalist.
 

adorshki

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Crank,

For the last year or more, I have been the only guitarist playing in the collection of songs my instructor has me in. The bulk of the students are much younger ( by a lot ) and don't play as well. We often have a previous student, turned friend that plays along, but he doesn't play loud so the beat loses something when Aaron takes a solo. Another adult aged student used to play with us, and he did more rock guitar stuff, like "Free Ride" by Edgar Winter or " Peace of Mind " by Boston. But, he hasn't been around for some time. In the context of our recitals, Aaron, my instructor, solos on pretty much every song, because we try to pick the songs by something that lets everyone playing take a crack at a solo. That's part of the learning goals for my "group" of students. Play in front of people. Solo over given chords or scales. With the younger kids, it's just them playing the best and he does the bass parts, or, the melody, if the student needs a melody for everyone to know what song they are playing the chords to.

As others have mentioned, I want to help make sure the groove is nice and present, no matter who is soloing or even if it's not a solo, and Aaron his helping with the melody, because we don't HAVE a vocalist.

Technique-wise, I find I have the best results playing bar chords up around the 5th-7th frets when I want to just keep a nice rhythm going behind a solo.
Those vamps behind solos are usually just 2 or 3 chords anyway, right?
So, real easy to transpose up the neck and something about the position gives a real nice voice, understated but unmistakably "present".
I think that's what you're going for, right?
 

JohnW63

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Those vamps behind solos are usually just 2 or 3 chords anyway, right?

If they are one or two 12 bar blues type songs, yes. If they are the jazz standards, nope. Autumn Leaves, Blue Bossa, Sunny, All of me, that sort of thing. There are a few not so familiar tunes I was working on. Here's one I want to get in the rotation:
 

mavuser

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Eddie Van Halen.

also Glenn- wild story! Band of Gypsys is the greatest!
 
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