Did I commit guitar/amp heresy?

GSFV

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I took a leap, and purchased a Line6 Helix LT. If you don't know what it is it is a multi effects pedal that also does an amp model in the signal chain. So it's all in one. Went back and forth for a while, but bit the bullet and went for it. This thing is outstanding! Cleans are pristine as you might expect from solid state, but the drives are great too! Both overdrive and distortion (though admittedly I don't use much distortion) sound authentic/real.

Being the only electric playing in a church worship band I have to cover a lot of ground. It is a decent amount of work up front, but I decided to do a preset for every song we play (Helix can store something ridiculous like over 1000 presets!!!) and make minor tweaks based on what we're doing. Hit save, and then it's there permanently. I even have a back up on my computer if something does go wrong. This thing saves time and energy while playing allowing me to focus on music and playing, and (get this!) actually worship as well.

To be honest, I was hoping that it would revitalize my strat as it has never gotten along with my set up for worship. But instead, it made me love my Starfire even more! Can't say I'm too upset about that. I play more than I ever have because I can play with headphones and it doesn't disrupt the house as they sleep. Yet another win!

Anyway. I'm posting because I wasn't sure if there were any other Helix users hiding about. And I was curious if anyone has used one and/or what they use it for. What guitars they pair with it, etc. I searched and didn't see anything so I figured I'd start one.

So...did I commit guitar heresy? I don't know. But I love the Helix! and am okay with being a heretic! :laughing: :eagerness:
 

shihan

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At least from this corner of LTG, you have absolution. Those are great, versatile amps.
I’m in a band with a guitar player who can cover just about any type of gig, and he uses one a lot when he needs a variety of tones on the job.
I think you done good.
 

GAD

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I play through an AxeFX III and a QSC K12, so I’m not against the idea. Line6 and I, though, are like oil and water.
 

GGJaguar

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Whatever works for you and inspires you to play is the right amp. That's how I choose my amps... and guitars for that matter.
 

Nuuska

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Hello from Finland

As a soundman for over 40 years - from my angle that thing among others like that is most recommended - you do not need to blast to "get that sound". From FOH there is nothing more difficult than trying to tame some smart-alec who destroys otherwise fine ensemble with excessive loudness - no matter how great HIS/HER'S sound is.

You can use a small amp as monitor - or have personal feed from FOH-desk to your wedge, if there is one.
 

Walter Broes

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Whatever works for you and inspires you to play is the right amp. That's how I choose my amps... and guitars for that matter.

Agree with that 100%. Whatever works for you.
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I like the physical sensation of playing through a tube amp. I'm a bit of a dinosaur with gear myself, but I have noticed that split between axe-fx, Kemper and Helix, it finally seems to be happening : a LOT of people are switching over to modeling setups. At the professional level, I think it has a lot to do with in-ear monitoring slowly almost becoming the norm - if your stage time is spent listening to everything including yourself through tiny earbuds, you might as well save yourself the trouble of having an amp on stage.

FOH guys love quiet stages, and current decibel laws in a lot of countries are making it near impossible to use 50W tube amps the way we used to used to use them. Also, we're living in an effects-obsessed time, and I'm seeing a lot of players shape their sound on their pedal board and really only use their amp as a clean effects platform. So plugging a modeling device straight into the PA system is the logical next step.

I don't like it myself, like I've said. It feels and sounds too controlled and clean and sanitized and clinical to me, and I'm hearing a lot of folks fall into the same trap with the modeling stuff as in the days of 19" racks : having almost every effect you can think of at the ready makes people use more effects than they would playing through an amp, and programming patches per song, or even multiple patches per song. I've been in one tour/project where the second guitar player was having so much fun with his (relatively new to him) Axe Fx that the stereo reverbs and delays, choruses and modulated delay trails became comical to annoying. But then I'm not crazy about the extremely processed sound of most pop (and even rock) music these days, I really am a dinosaur.

I certainly see the attraction of plugging one smallish, relatively lightweight box straight into the sound system, but I have to say I've never seen or hear anyone use those things where I though "dang, that guy has an increble guitar tone" or even "wow, that sounds great!". But it sure is practical, and in probably in about a decade or substantially less, it'll be the norm and amps will be a rare thing.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I bet in the longer term folks will get over the "I can make a zillion sounds…think I'll make 'em all at once!" thing and learn to exercise some restraint. :) Better core amp tone, as modelers improve and players using tube amps pair 'em with improved attenuators, should encourage less effect-y playing.

-Dave-
 

GSFV

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Wow! Very surprised to get any love. But I’m glad for it.

Nuuska, The sound guy at my church has been thrilled since I switched. He said exactly what you said. Lower stage volume and him having more control of the total volume was a plus.

Walter, I actually agree with all the crazy effects. I hear a lot of it and honestly really miss the simplicity of a guitar in amp sound. And I keep that readily available in my set-up. I think people often lose sight of what an effect is. It’s an effect. You use it when you need it, then turn it off. Not necessarily a permanent part of the sound. But some people do just leave it on permanently. Not our cup of tea I suppose.

GAD, I usually don’t like Line6 either. And kinda laughed at myself for considering it. But here I am, eating my own words now. Haha. I considered the other’s but liked the interface/price of the Helix LT. AxeFX is an amazing system! I hadn’t looked into any of this stuff in so long, so when I started to I was absolutely blown away. The tones are incredible.

The way I describe them is that if you were to A/B the real deal with the modeler a discerning ear can tell. But by the time you add vocals, drums, bass guitar, piano, and throw it into the house mix those nuances are generally lost. If not, only the most discerning listener could tell. And in my case, we have me, acoustic guitar, piano, bass, 3+vocalists, and drums.
 

GAD

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You’re right on in your thinking. Downside of the AxeFX is the crazy depth of tweakability, but you don’t have to use that stuff. I love mine.
 

DThomasC

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but you don’t have to use that stuff.

Exactly. Modelers can be just amps without any effects. To me, the huge benefit is that you can have multiple amps in a hand held, battery powered device.

Honestly, I don't get Fender's one amp - one cabinet approach. The amps might sound great, but other than less weight, where's the advantage over a tube amp? It's like buying a computer that runs only one piece of software. I need a different computer for each program I want to run?
 

Walter Broes

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Honestly, I don't get Fender's one amp - one cabinet approach. The amps might sound great, but other than less weight, where's the advantage over a tube amp? It's like buying a computer that runs only one piece of software. I need a different computer for each program I want to run?
I actually like the idea of their new modeling Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb. The main advantages are that they're cheaper, a LOT lighter weight, low- to no-maintance, and probably a little less fragile than tube amps, although I'm not too sure about that last one. Computer driven devices have given me a lot more trouble in my daily life than my tube amps.
 

fronobulax

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Interesting. The idea that the amp market is, or will be, changing because of in ear monitoring and good house systems and FOH engineers makes a lot of sense. But while I play in public almost once a month, it has been about five years since the venue had a house system and engineer, so I am responsible for my sound and the volume. So there will always be a market for something that offers the player the sound they want and then the ability to make it louder.

I also note the tendency for people to leave effects on all the time. There is a local guitarist who loves his reverb and uses it on guitar and vocals. He has gotten to looping and usually has reverb in the loop. Bottom line is ten feet away you don't hear music, you hear reverb.

Good thread, by the way. I am learning and thinking about what I read, which is not always the case.
 

GAD

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You don’t have to use FOH. I play mine through a QSC K12 FRFR speaker and it’s 1000 watts (2x500 biamped) so it gets plenty loud. The benefit is that I can play it low, too, and not lose tone.

The only thing you lose is the feel of an amp in the room. That’s disrupts some people more than others. I love a good tube amp but I sold them all after I got the AxeFX.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I actually like the idea of their new modeling Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb. The main advantages are that they're cheaper, a LOT lighter weight, low- to no-maintance, and probably a little less fragile than tube amps, although I'm not too sure about that last one. Computer driven devices have given me a lot more trouble in my daily life than my tube amps.

Agree with this, with the note that nearly all my computer woes over the past 30+ years have been software rather than hardware caused. My Mac Powerbook from 2003 even boots up just fine, though it's not useful for much now. I'm just not into carefully crafting guitar sounds. Winging it in the moment is more my thing, and self-contained devices with all options "right up front" work best for this.

-Dave-
 

GAD

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Agree with this, with the note that nearly all my computer woes over the past 30+ years have been software rather than hardware caused. My Mac Powerbook from 2003 even boots up just fine, though it's not useful for much now. I'm just not into carefully crafting guitar sounds. Winging it in the moment is more my thing, and self-contained devices with all options "right up front" work best for this.

-Dave-

One of the cool things about modelers like the AxeFX is that you can still do that.
 

DThomasC

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I get what people are saying about most computer problems being software related, bot hardware.

My point is that the all of the Fender modelling amps are intrinsically capable of sounding like any other of the Fender modeling amps. (This is assuming that they generate all of their tonal qualities via DSP and not from analog electronics.) Why would you prefer to have an amp that sounds like only one of them when you could, for the price of a toggle switch, have an amp that sounds like any of them? I'm not talking about adding effects and a dozen knobs to twiddle, I'm talking about adding one switch that let's you select between any of a number of different amps.

That's what modeling amps are all about. Their major component is a computer running software. The software may or may not be any good (that's why all modeling amps are not equal.) But, presuming the software is useful, why not be able to select between a Deluxe Reverb and an AC30 with the flick of a switch?
 

GAD

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That's what modeling amps are all about. Their major component is a computer running software. The software may or may not be any good (that's why all modeling amps are not equal.) But, presuming the software is useful, why not be able to select between a Deluxe Reverb and an AC30 with the flick of a switch?

One of the most useful amps I ever bought was a $100 Roland Micro Cube.

MicroCubeGXR-large.jpg



It's not the best amp in the world, but it does a reasonable approximation of five or so big amps and it has a bunch of effects built into it that you use just by twisting some very simple and easy to understand knobs.

a6212357-29b3-4aea-875e-44bc3d45f22d_3bd73c19-61db-4e73-8ece-d0b8d11d4d44.jpg


And it runs on AA batteries if you want! Why's it so great? Because I can bring it to a Craigslist/eBay/Reverb/whatever meeting place and plug in and get a good idea of how well a guitar works and how it will sound. I can sit in my back yard with it and play, I can use headphones, and it even has an aux-in so I can play along with my iPhone.

They make bigger models and I routinely see them used by buskers in cities all around the world because they sound great!

Modeling has almost always been a balance between convenience and quality, but that is no longer the case. Major acts are using modelers now for huge concerts. The band I saw opening for Slash last year used Kempers.
 

Quantum Strummer

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Just speaking for myself: having an amp with the ability to sound like any of five (or so) quite different amps is something I don't want. Once I start dithering over options and then tweaking settings, my ability to get lost in just playing goes away. I even deliberately keep the amp I'm currently using in my rec room and all the rest in a room at the other end of house. :) Lugging around an AC15 or even my Hi-Tone head takes some effort, as does adjusting various effects pedal settings to work best with them, so when I decide to use either of those they tend to stay put for awhile. If I were playing out, though, I might take a different approach.

-Dave-
 

fronobulax

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Just speaking for myself: having an amp with the ability to sound like any of five (or so) quite different amps is something I don't want. Once I start dithering over options and then tweaking settings, my ability to get lost in just playing goes away. I even deliberately keep the amp I'm currently using in my rec room and all the rest in a room at the other end of house. :) Lugging around an AC15 or even my Hi-Tone head takes some effort, as does adjusting various effects pedal settings to work best with them, so when I decide to use either of those they tend to stay put for awhile. If I were playing out, though, I might take a different approach.

-Dave-

:)

One pickup and only tone and volume controls. Amp only gets adjusted when the room is changed. Limiting the choices restrains analysis paralysis. I had a modeling amp, primarily for portability, but I tended to stick with one amp model and on my bad days wasn't sure I could tell them apart :)
 

DThomasC

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Just speaking for myself: having an amp with the ability to sound like any of five (or so) quite different amps is something I don't want. Once I start dithering over options and then tweaking settings, my ability to get lost in just playing goes away. I even deliberately keep the amp I'm currently using in my rec room and all the rest in a room at the other end of house. :) Lugging around an AC15 or even my Hi-Tone head takes some effort, as does adjusting various effects pedal settings to work best with them, so when I decide to use either of those they tend to stay put for awhile. If I were playing out, though, I might take a different approach.

-Dave-

I get that. There were decades where I had only a single amp (and sometimes only a single guitar) and never felt like I really needed something else.

I suppose modelling amps just don't offer any advantage for you, except possibly extremely light weight. I wouldn't count on them being any more reliable than a well built tube amp.
 
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