Guild JF-30-12 String Acoustic, 90's

Cougar

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...Fundamentally the JF-30 is the 'F-512' with less bling.

Dunion, interesting reply. Do you, or does anyone else in this thread, really put the JF-30 in line with the 512?

I think what he meant was that the JF30-12 has the same underlying specs as the F412, since they are both archback maple jumbos. The difference in "bling" shouldn't have any effect on the tonal output. (I guess the spruce top on the F412 is "AAA" and the JF30-12 is likely "AA." That might make some tonal difference.) The F512 has a solid rosewood back.

It's best to add the "12" to the JF30-12 since a JF30 is a 6-string.
 

wileypickett

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I have owned four JF30-12 strings (currently own two). I've also owned three F412s (currently own one) and two F512s (currently own none).

While all the JF-30 12s were / are Westerly-made, they weren't all created equal. The two I've hung onto were the two I thought sounded best, and the most recently purchased of these is one with a Walnut STAINED top (dated Jun 12, 1990,) which I picked up just a couple weeks ago. (By mistake, as it turned out -- I thought the "Walnut" written on the label referred to the wood the top was made of -- several makers do use walnut for their tops -- but Hans disabused me of that notion!)

That said, it sounds fantastic. While I haven't A / B / C'd it with my other JF30-12 and my F412 yet, my first impression, now that the bridge is reseated, the top flattened with a Bridge Doctor, and the plastic saddle replaced with bone, is that it's at least as good sounding as the others, and it may be top of the heap.

So, based on my experience anyway, one shouldn't ignore JF30-12s in favor of F412s. They have the potential of rivaling their pricier / bling-ier cousins.
 

tomvwash

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This is all good to hear. A lot of you appear to have solved the conundrum by having more than one. Dunion was making an earlier comparison above to the F-512 with the JF30-12 (not the F-412), right? I will keep my eyes open for a F-512 12 as well. Somehow, though, paying anything more than $2000 for a guitar gets questionable on my end, but I have seen the used ones dip around that price level. Thanks again,

Tom
 

Cougar

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....So, based on my experience anyway, one shouldn't ignore JF30-12s in favor of F412s. They have the potential of rivaling their pricier / bling-ier cousins.

Good to hear. Come to think of it, I did have an F412 for a while. Apparently the good deal I got on it was because the saddle was pretty low, which robbed it of the projection I was expecting. I had the pin slots ramped, which helped a bit, but I eventually sold it rather than having the neck reset. I kept the JF30-12 of course, which is just a super 12-string!
 

tomvwash

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I'm coming around to that realization every time I pick it up. It's only been a week.
 

adorshki

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This is all good to hear. A lot of you appear to have solved the conundrum by having more than one. Dunion was making an earlier comparison above to the F-512 with the JF30-12 (not the F-412), right?
I was going to call him on that but later in the post it seemed clear he was comparing maple-bodies (" It does sound a little bit different than a Rosewood jumbo 12-string F-512 of the same shape") so I just chalked it up to a typo (as Cougar thought) and didn't want to harass him about it.
On re-read though, I believe Dunion is a bit mixed up about his guitars.
And Dunion with due respect because I don't want to alienate a new member, here's where I think your memory may have gone astray:
Hi
Fundamentally the JF-30 is the 'F-512' with less bling.
Is that a typo? JF30-12 is traditionally thought of as the blinged-down version of F-412, also arched maple back.

I also have a Rosewood 1980 F50 6-string. I had heard the Westerly Maple 12 string and always wanted that specifically for the specific sound which has a lot of great resonance and sound on the mid and high and is still clear enough in the Bass, but not too 'Bass-y'. It does sound a little bit different than a Rosewood jumbo 12-string F-512 of the same shape. It is 'brighter'. At the same time those also would have been arched back also. My F50 (Rosewood) is arched back.
So if you don't like the Maple tone, you can look for the Rosewood one, the model # F-512 on Ebay. They are both awesome sounding. The necks are not narrow so be prepared for that. Even the F-512 will not be 'really really Bass-y' but it may sound very slightly 'warmer'.
NOW you got me confused.
Sounds like the reason you think the JF30-12 is a blinged down version of F512 is that they both have arched backs but 512 is rosewood?
They don't both have arched backs.
The JF30, the JF30-12 and the F412 are all derived from the F50, having arched maple back construction by definition, while the F512 is derived from the F50R, flat rosewood back by definition.
In any case, although there were a very few arched back F50Rs made in late '60's early '70's, I can't recall ever hearing of an 80's era F50R with arched back or any era F512 with arched back.
Or is that 1980 itself a typo?
In fairness, knowing Guild, if one was reported as a special order or build I wouldn't doubt it (in fact after all these years I'd even expect it, LOL!), but you don't say that.
And in any case it would still not be a valid generalization for either F50Rs or F512's.
They were flatbacks by definition, otherwise they were "specials".
 
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tomvwash

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Yes, this makes more sense. I understand the point now and the connection with the 412. Thank you for clarifying that.
 

adorshki

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Yes, this makes more sense. I understand the point now and the connection with the 412. Thank you for clarifying that.
You reminded me I forgot to look at Dunion's previous posts, (click on the user's name and the option shows up) and this was all explained to him 7 years ago:

https://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/s...-Blonde-new-vs-original&p=1540203#post1540203

So in sympathy I can't remember a lot of stuff I saw 7 years ago either, but in my case I tend to recall concepts more concretely than details.
But it seems like he didn't like what he heard then, either, and went away (or at least didn't speak) for 7 years (LOL!)...it's real headscratcher.
One thing's still known, though: There wasn't a maple flatback 12-er built in US, only the MIC GADJF30-12 version mentioned in that thread.
Whoopsie, just remembered the Doyle Dykes DD12mce which wasn't in production when that thread was started:
https://reverb.com/item/18016354-guild-dd-12-mce-doyle-dykes-signature-12-string-natural.
BUT: That one's based on the F47 16" "mini-jumbo" outline so still not derived from the F50 but rather the F40 family, as were the F212 (mahogany) and F312 (rosewood) with which Guild set the new industry standard for 12-string excellence back in '64-'65.
:friendly_wink:
 
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Zelja

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Late to the party, congrats on your purchase. I have a JF30-12, a'92, love it. First Guild I ever bought. Freaking huge neck, hollow it out & you can use it as a canoe (OK, slight use of hyperbolic extension there).

Currently got it strung up as a 6, old strings, in open E & it sounds great like that as well.
 

wileypickett

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My first Guild was also a JF30 12-string -- still have it (along with about 40 others -- talk about gateway drugs!).
 

Cougar

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...I have a JF30-12, a'92, love it. First Guild I ever bought....
My first Guild was also a JF30 12-string -- still have it....

Same here. First Guild. Hooked on Guilds. Never sell it!

jib805.jpg
 

beecee

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You know I love mine.



Tonewise, how could it be much different than the 412?


Probably not as different as I think, but they are two different animals.

The JF-30 is a broad ax. The 412 is an epee. To ME playing the JF neck is how a 12 string should feel. The 412/512's I have from NH feel more like an electric.

Both sound lovely. Probably more alike than I can tell but the feel in my hands is so different.

If I ever had to sell one, it would probably be the NH as I've had the JF so long, does everything a Guild 12 should do and of course the 412 is worth much more
 

adorshki

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Probably not as different as I think, but they are two different animals.

The JF-30 is a broad ax. The 412 is an epee. To ME playing the JF neck is how a 12 string should feel. The 412/512's I have from NH feel more like an electric.
Don't forget they introduced the single-truss neck with dual flanking graphite stabilizers on the F512 late in Tacoma production.
It not only lightened up the necks, but also allowed 'em to use a slightly thinner profile in New Hartford, at least.
(Don't know if they took it that far in Tacoma, re the profile.)
My best buddy has a first-year Jf30-12 and although the neck is a wee bit chunky to me, the slightly flatter fretboard radius also compensates for it.
I can warm up to it pretty easily.
 

adorshki

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I also have a Rosewood 1980 F50 6-string. I had heard the Westerly Maple 12 string and always wanted that specifically for the specific sound which has a lot of great resonance and sound on the mid and high and is still clear enough in the Bass, but not too 'Bass-y'. It does sound a little bit different than a Rosewood jumbo 12-string F-512 of the same shape. It is 'brighter'. At the same time those also would have been arched back also. My F50 (Rosewood) is arched back.
In any case, although there were a very few arched back F50Rs made in late '60's early '70's, I can't recall ever hearing of an 80's era F50R with arched back or any era F512 with arched back.
Or is that 1980 itself a typo?
In fairness, knowing Guild, if one was reported as a special order or build I wouldn't doubt it (in fact after all these years I'd even expect it, LOL!), but you don't say that.
And in any case it would still not be a valid generalization for either F50Rs or F512's.

They were flatbacks by definition, otherwise they were "specials".
Bump in light of a new for sale sighting:
https://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/s...Guild-F-512-Brazilian-Rosewood-w-F-612-Inlays
Dunion if you're still reading, this is an F-512 with an arched back, and first thing I thought of was your post which caused some confusion here.
This is a '70 but bottom line is that while I still suspect that yours is actually not a '70, it definitely confirms the existence of at least 2 F512's with arched backs, assuming your guitar is not the one for sale (And it appears not to be, since it has the F612 inlays and a specific "backstory")
Now how in the world will I remember that the next time it comes up in a couple of years?
:biggrin-new:
 

wileypickett

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I have a first year F212XL that also has the F612 fret markers.

There's a website devoted to John Denver that shows his various guitars, and it looks like he had one too.
 

adorshki

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I have a first year F212XL that also has the F612 fret markers.

There's a website devoted to John Denver that shows his various guitars, and it looks like he had one too.

The 212XL or an arched back F512?
Think we've seen him noted as an F612 owner unless he had one of each (all 3).
Which wouldn't surprise me.
:biggrin-new:
 

wileypickett

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The 212XL or an arched back F512? Think we've seen him noted as an F612 owner unless he had one of each (all 3). Which wouldn't surprise me.
:biggrin-new:

I'm not a Denver fan, but my recollection is that he started out with an F212XL and then graduated to an F612, which he commissioned Guild to make for him, no?

I think I have the website bookmarked somewhere -- I'll see if I can find it. Pretty sure it was listed as an F212XL though -- I remember noting that it was the same model as mine. He may even be pictured playing it on one of his album covers.
 

adorshki

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Pretty sure it was listed as an F212XL though -- I remember noting that it was the same model as mine. He may even be pictured playing it on one of his album covers.
Thanks buddy!
That's all I was getting at, and I trust your memory of it 'cause that's the kind of detail that'd "stick'.
:smile:
 
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