Guild magnet / Guild problem?

mountainpix

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I should have titled this, "What is that Guild mojo, anyway?"

I've been playing guitar for about thirty-two years. I still have my first real electric, a "cheap pawnshop special" Guild S-300A, made when I was about six years old. Over the years I've had a variety of Gibsons, Fenders, Gretsches, Japanese Epiphones, and for several years had an EVH Wolfgang. Over and over, though, I've been drawn to Guild guitars. An S-100 Reissue found it's way into the stable back around 2004, only to be let go around 2008, replaced by a 1996 Bluesbird. Recently, I acquired a Nightbird II, which is the best electric I've ever played, plus another 1996 reissue S-100, because I'd missed the old one (it's the only guitar model I've ever re-bought after selling one). The amazing thing is that after all these years, and owning several guitars by various brands (and trying out hundreds more), I have to say that my Guilds have earned the top-ranked spaces in my small collection.

When I grab a Les Paul, SG, Strat, etc., while I might like them ok, I find that they generally don't feel nearly as good or play as well as my Guilds, either right off the bat, or over time. It's partly to do with the necks. Guild necks tend to feel right in my hands, but they are also all a little different to one another, so I'm not sure what to chalk the comfort and familiarity up to (I tend to like 1-and-11/16ths medium to medium-slim necks with a radius of between 12" and 20"). Beyond that, it's just feel, tone, finish, and the stability. I find that once set up, I tend to have to do less adjustment over time with my Guilds. They are just so well built.

There's something about Guild guitars that just works for me. A certain "je ne sais quoi" perhaps?

Anyway, I think that I may have a "Guild problem." I played a Starfire III the other day...
 
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adorshki

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It's partly to do with the necks. Guild necks tend to feel right in my hands, but they are also all a little different to one another, so I'm not sure what to chalk the comfort and familiarity up to (I tend to like 1-and-11/16ths medium to medium-slim necks with a radius of between 12" and 20").
Our guru Hans Moust has explained that in Westerly, every single neck was given final shaping by hand on a belt sander (and a "tubular" sander is visible being used on the neck of a D55 a Guild Gallery article about building D55's), page 8 here:
https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Guild-1997-1998-Gallery-Catalog.pdf
(Showed you that issue before but don't know if you had the link to GAD's collection, an immeasurably valuable contribution to our site. Thanks Gary!)
And coincidentally while that article covers building necks for a D55s, obviously many of the processes and QC philosophy applied to electrics as well.
Here's where things get interesting:
The first mention I know of regarding a spec fretboard radius are in that Guild Gallery #1, pg 35:
"All Guild electrics have a 12" fingerboard radius"
Prior to that I've even seen members cite 'em as wide as 9" and even 11", depending on the model, I suspect.
I'd expect archtops to probably get flatter radii for the intended jazz application "back in the day", for example, (oh, and 12-strings too) but don't actually know.
The '96 catalog shows the S-100 spec'd with a 1-5/8" nut, but member GAD has reported "wide" variation on nut width/fingerboard radius on his electrics.
(ie a closer to 1-3/4 measurement on a 1-11/16 spec BB neck IIRC, think that one had a flatter board, as well.
I may have the details wrong but it's the principle of variation being almost the norm I'm getting at)
I chalk all that up to Guild's practice of using "old inventory" and/or stock on hand to complete builds and the whole period of '94 (S-100 re-issue introduction) to '96 bookends Fender's acquisition of Guild (finalized in Nov. '95), so I'd be willing to bet that some "old" necks got used in the construction of early runs of those models.
For example, the early S-100 re-issues also had "old style" rounded fretboard ends as seen here:
https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1992-Catalog-JazzGuitar.pdf
by sometime in '96 they were squared off, see pg. 33 of Guild Gallery #1.
Maybe those "squared-off" necks mark the introduction of Fender's more stringent spec/quality control?
And still every neck got hand finished, and there's production tolerance to take into account, so you get a neck on the skinny end of tolerance and it gets sanded down a bit more, and suddenly a 1-11/16 spec nut comes out closer to 1-5/8.
And vice-versa.
It's part of the charm, really, and even a joke especially on the flat top side:
"Don't like the neck on that one? Try another one!"
And on top of all that they were known to change a spec on a whim or produce a run with an off-spec nut-width, especially over on the flat-top side, where there're several known examples of high-end dreads produced with 1-3/4 nuts when the spec was 1-11/16. They HAD to do that on purpose, I think, and they're from that '93-94 period.
Like the first re-issue S-100's.
They also did in the late '80's with a "batch" of G37's, spec'd for 1-11/6 nut but out of 3 reported with 1-5/8 nut, 2 pieces had s/n's only 2 or 3 digits apart.
Since Guild built "batches" increments of 6, one suspects they built at least a couple of batches with the 1-5/8 nut, pretty narrow for a dreadnought.
I think to myself, "Read between those lines": I think variation was a production philosophy, handed down from Hoboken era when Hans has said they operated more like a custom shop than a production factory.
But by God they all were built to a higher quality standard because of it.
And always covered by a price list disclaimer (at least in later years):
"Specs subject to change without notice".
:glee:

Beyond that, it's just feel, tone, finish, and the stability. I find that once set up, I tend to have to do less adjustment over time with my Guilds. They are just so well built.

There's something about Guild guitars that just works for me. A certain "je ne sais quoi" perhaps?
A-yup.
And not just the electrics.
"Made to be Played"
:smile:

Anyway, I think that I may have a "Guild problem." I played a Starfire III the other day...
You'll know when it's too late when you sleep all day and can't stand exposure to the sun (or garlic) anymore.
Then you'll be one of us.
:glee:
 
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mountainpix

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That is all really fascinating. Many thanks for sharing!


Our guru Hans Moust has explained that in Westerly, every single neck was given final shaping by hand on a belt sander (and a "tubular" sander is visible being used on the neck of a D55 a Guild Gallery article about building D55's), page 8 here:
https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Guild-1997-1998-Gallery-Catalog.pdf
(Showed you that issue before but don't know if you had the link to GAD's collection, an immeasurably valuable contribution to our site. Thanks Gary!)
And coincidentally while that article covers building necks for a D55s, obviously many of the processes and QC philosophy applied to electrics as well.
Here's where things get interesting:
The first mention I know of regarding a spec fretboard radius are in that Guild Gallery #1, pg 35:
"All Guild electrics have a 12" fingerboard radius"
Prior to that I've even seen members cite 'em as wide as 9" and even 11", depending on the model, I suspect.
I'd expect archtops to probably get flatter radii for the intended jazz application "back in the day", for example, (oh, and 12-strings too) but don't actually know.
The '96 catalog shows the S-100 spec'd with a 1-5/8" nut, but member GAD has reported "wide" variation on nut width/fingerboard radius on his electrics.
(ie a closer to 1-3/4 measurement on a 1-11/16 spec BB neck IIRC, think that one had a flatter board, as well.
I may have the details wrong but it's the principle of variation being almost the norm I'm getting at)
I chalk all that up to Guild's practice of using "old inventory" and/or stock on hand to complete builds and the whole period of '94 (S-100 re-issue introduction) to '96 bookends Fender's acquisition of Guild (finalized in Nov. '95), so I'd be willing to bet that some "old" necks got used in the construction of early runs of those models.
For example, the early S-100 re-issues also had "old style" rounded fretboard ends as seen here:
https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1992-Catalog-JazzGuitar.pdf
by sometime in '96 they were squared off, see pg. 33 of Guild Gallery #1.
Maybe those "squared-off" necks mark the introduction of Fender's more stringent spec/quality control?
And still every neck got hand finished, and there's production tolerance to take into account, so you get a neck on the skinny end of tolerance and it gets sanded down a bit more, and suddenly a 1-11/16 spec nut comes out closer to 1-5/8.
And vice-versa.
It's part of the charm, really, and even a joke especially on the flat top side:
"Don't like the neck on that one? Try another one!"
And on top of all that they were known to change a spec on a whim or produce a run with an off-spec nut-width, especially over on the flat-top side, where there're several known examples of high-end dreads produced with 1-3/4 nuts when the spec was 1-11/16. They HAD to do that on purpose, I think, and they're from that '93-94 period.
Like the first re-issue S-100's.
They also did in the late '80's with a "batch" of G37's, spec'd for 1-11/6 nut but out of 3 reported with 1-5/8 nut, 2 pieces had s/n's only 2 or 3 digits apart.
Since Guild built "batches" increments of 6, one suspects they built at least a couple of batches with the 1-5/8 nut, pretty narrow for a dreadnought.
I think to myself, "Read between those lines": I think variation was a production philosophy, handed down from Hoboken era when Hans has said they operated more like a custom shop than a production factory.
But by God they all were built to a higher quality standard because of it.
And always covered by a price list disclaimer (at least in later years):
"Specs subject to change without notice".
:glee:


A-yup.
And not just the electrics.
"Made to be Played"
:smile:


You'll know when it's too late when you sleep all day and can't stand exposure to the sun (or garlic) anymore.
Then you'll be one of us.
:glee:
 

adorshki

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That is all really fascinating. Many thanks for sharing!

Yer welcome!
I know I can get a little long-winded sometimes, but by golly I know where a bunch of good bones are buried!
And anything I mention without a corroborating source link I'm ready to go look up again on request, it just takes a little longer than I have time for while actually composing posts these days.
And to be fair I have had more than a couple of famous crash-and-burns with faulty memory, or when making deductive guesses about Guild's production methods, so try to avoid that these days and stick with what I can produce evidence for, like factory lit or owner reports.
You happened to join shortly after GAD posted that magnificent collection, makes it easy to access, and is one of the best things to happen for this forum in my opinion, even if we do bump heads occasionally.
Hans himself has also mentioned catalogs and price lists were known to contain errors, but when you see a spec consistently cited over a period of years like finish color or nut width, I suspect it's a pretty good indicator of a "real" and "correct" spec.
:friendly_wink:
But I don't really ever expect to find an S-100 Polara with rosewood pickups as shown on page 35 spec chart of GG #1.
:glee:
 
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DThomasC

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mountainpix, I think I know what you mean about Guild necks. They're all different, but yet they still seem to share something in common, something intangible. Like you, I started out with an S-300 - and a D25. I had other guitars before them, but they were the ones that I actually learned to play on because they were the ones that made me want to play. I still have them both!
 

hansmoust

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Our guru Hans Moust has explained that in Westerly, every single neck was given final shaping by hand on a belt sander

No, I did not! Go back to the original thread and read that the final shaping on the belt sander that I mentioned was about the radius on fingerboards!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

adorshki

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No, I did not! Go back to the original thread and read that the final shaping on the belt sander that I mentioned was about the radius on fingerboards!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

MY face is red again, thank you and apology for the misquote.
Edit:
For the record, I believe this is the post Hans is referring to:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...Starfire-III-fretboard-radius-and-nut-spacing
Hello reverberocket2,

Over the years I've inspected and measured hundreds of Guild guitars and they were all different when it came down to fretboard radius and nut spacing. When I visited the Guild factory for the first time some time during the '80s it all became clear to me after I noticed how the fingerboards were rounded. They were all done by hand on a big belt sander and because of that they all turned out slightly different. I must say though that the person who did it was really good and the boards were all within specs. Not that they had written down specs but the worker would know when it was right. There were a few people at Guild who were like that and who could turn 'eyeballing' into an art form.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
I used to read the archives for a couple of years before I formally joined but don't truly recall that specific post.
It (or a similar one) must have stuck though because I do recall this one re nut width variation, but it doesn't mention use of a belt sander in the neck shaping (as opposed to radiusing the fingerboards) process:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?156753-Width-at-the-nut-on-a-JF30-12
Think I'll remember it now but I bookmarked the threads just in case!
 
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