The Mystery Guild, prepare for the weird...

Whoa.

Is it still returnable? If yes, my advice would be to do so immediately.

guildedagain,

Is that picture a joke? I'm not laughing.

Please ignore my earlier advice. That guitar is seriously messed up. No amount of humidification is going to put that right.

Thx GJ, very kind.

I'm working on the pics, to get them back on, this is ridiculous, I paid the subscription (pretty sure I haven't seen the re-up email yet), and then found out neither eBay and CL will allow you to host your own pics, so it was a waste of $$$, never used it once, but now that I need to, I need to pay...

Edit; But I'm subscribed til 2020... I'm waiting for tech support to write back.

Fixed, all I had to do was pay more money...

Seller is being really slow about responding to what I found in the case, as in silence, but he was always two days away on a response...

The 15" small-jumbo shaped F-30 was not produced in '71. It's first appearance was for the '73 model year (but a few were manufactured towards the end of '72).

The wavey top is a concern, but if it otherwise has remained structurally sound & will accept a proper setup, it may indeed be worth hanging on to. Visually, this is one my all time favorite models - just a beautiful shape & execution overall.

bobouz said:

The 15" small-jumbo shaped F-30 was not produced in '71. It's first appearance was for the '73 model year (but a few were manufactured towards the end of '72).

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I have an early '72 with the mini-jumbo body: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?197374-Questions-about-the-Guild-F-30
Were both variations of the F-30 being produced in the same year?

bobouz said:

The 15" small-jumbo shaped F-30 was not produced in '71. It's first appearance was for the '73 model year (but a few were manufactured towards the end of '72).

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The first ones that I've documented so far appeared towards the end of the year 1971.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Guildedagain said:

There is some weirdness with the top and pickguard, the pickguard is barely off the top, has melted into the top, it looks like pigment from the guard bled into the paint, and that was only the beginning of the weird...

Does anybody remember my D4-12 with the pickguard issues, the exploding pickguard? Summer of 2016 I think it was, I'll never forget it... The guitar is gone, I did the pickguard but never posted it, stepped away from the forum for a while. The pickguard material was original from Hans, and I finally got the gumption to trace it, cut it, glue it. I wasn't happy with it when it was done, some crap got under it during the gluing process, but I left it alone, and six months later, it all shrunk and you could not tell it from an original.

However I have major history with old Guild pickguards and this one looks like it's been through something, but I don't know what.

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Yep. I remember that, I was the guy who explained that Guild glued the guards to the tops with NCL and was surprised when you were able to take that one off with heat.
It led to my suspicion that those satin finishes were actually poly.
Hans has said they experimented with it in Westerly but only ever positively ID'd one model that I recall.
Another guy with a D4 had insisted his guitar was poly finished too, but "IIRC" I never believed it until we had that feedback from you about getting the 'guard off with simple heat.
If it had been a gloss finish it would even have been finished over.
Which I'm sure is the case with that F30 and probably why the color has leached out.

Guildedagain said:

Neck angle seems horrible, with a rule hitting the top edge of the bridge, rather than the top of the saddle, which is pretty healthy actually.

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Right, it's supposed to hit top of bridge, not the saddle.
Saddle height dictates action height.

Guildedagain said:

So... this is a really weird guitar.

How could it be this dried out and have no cracks, ever, the guitar has no cracks in the top.

There are some horrible glue dribbles inside, down where the guitar rests on your knee, looks like somebody spilled a whole pot of glue ;-)

The neck block is very clearly stamped F112.

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AHA!
IF it's actually got an F112 top, those were braced more heavily for the stress and could explain why no cracks.
And it reminds me of a story of a member who reported an F30 with what appeared to be an F112 top, confirmed by Hans years ago after getting a description of the bracing.
As if they needed an F30 top to finish a build but only had F112 tops handy.
Maybe it came from that guitar?
(And not entirely joking about that, either!)

Guildedagain said:

The neck serial number matches the guitar.
I think maybe this guitar was put together by a Guild employee from pieces laying around the shop?

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You've probably seen Hans confirm those exist, but I didn't think they got s/n's.. unless maybe it was destined to be a second?
Or, having access to tooling the employee was able to get a stamp and write the label to match?
What else occurred to me is that perhaps it was intended to be an F112 when started and stamped, but was diverted to be an F30 due to demand, which was much higher.
As well, if it's a '71, right around that time they were changing the F30 from its traditional OOO shape to the "mini-jumbo".***
Might have been another reason to divert bodies that were slated to become F112's to F30's, to get 'em cleared out.
But that bit about the glue dribbles is definitely out of character for original Guild work.
It'd be interesting to see what Hans would say, if he can find it in his logs.

Guildedagain said:

Why does an F30 have a chipboard case, is that common, or normal?

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"IIRC" at that time the case was sold separately so that's not strange.
(see your '72 price list, they show 3 different quality levels of cases)
***EDIT: Was guilty of posting before reading all replies again, I see it is the mini-jumbo.
And saw your comments that no you suspect a repair is responsible for the glue.

[J.K.] said:

I have an early '72 with the mini-jumbo body: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?197374-Questions-about-the-Guild-F-30
Were both variations of the F-30 being produced in the same year?

Click to expand...

It wouldn't surprise me, even if it was only a matter of having built the old style for a while before they finally stopped using the old bucks and moved 100% to the new style.
It's not like they made changes when the new calendar year rolled around.

I like the small Jumbo's and was looking at them but I don't know what to expect tone wise along with overtones and sustain .

hansmoust said:

The first ones that I've documented so far appeared towards the end of the year 1971

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Thanks for the info Hans. I’ve never seen a mini-jumbo shaped F-30 from ‘71, but have seen many in the 000 body shape from ‘71 & ‘72.

So it seems like the transition phase to the mini-jumbo was complete as of 1973. Has anyone ever come across a F-30 in the 000 shape with a serial number from ‘73?

bobouz said:

The wavey top is a concern, but if it otherwise has remained structurally sound & will accept a proper setup, it may indeed be worth hanging on to. Visually, this is one my all time favorite models - just a beautiful shape & execution overall.

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I agree.
A "wavy" top in itself can actually be good for tone as Guildedagain seems to be noticing.
I'd just be concerned about whether the braces are remaining properly attached and that it isn't making the bridge and saddle have some kind of wonky angle with the neck.
It occurs to me that even that could be addressed, by adjusting saddle profile, but don't know how "easy" (or not!) that would be.
PS from what I see that does look like the original style and color of sunburst from that period.
Love those red-to-yellows much more than "tobacco".

Somebody once said they wouldn't trust a guitar without a little belly, and it's 48 freakin' years old, for pete's sake!

Just throwing this out since ya all got me looking , geez it's like a drug
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Guild/Vintage-1978-F-30-Aragon-Natural-OHSC-Acoustic-Guitar.gc

Huh did not know Aragon had the the jumbo shape ??

Rayk said:

Just throwing this out since ya all got me looking , geez it's like a drug��
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Guild/Vintage-1978-F-30-Aragon-Natural-OHSC-Acoustic-Guitar.gc

Huh did not know Aragon had the the jumbo shape ??

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I think by that time Guild had actually stopped calling 'em Aragons, but I see sellers using the "names" on models that were never marketed that way more and more often now.
Originally ALL F30's were Aragons, but Guild gradually stopped using the names and started only using model numbers over the course of the '70's.
Tacoma apparently revived the old names to distinguish the models with Adi tops, first offered there:
"Bluegrass Jubilee" D40, "Bluegrass Special" D50, "Valencia" F40, and "Aragon" F30.
All those had Adi tops and there were corresponding sitka-topped versions as well.
By that time the mini-jumbo shape was the standard for F30's.
And you gotta go back and make sure you're seeing all posts in a thread, soldier, the mini-jumbo shape started in '71.
One more time and you'll lose a weekend pass.
YOU wouldn't want to miss the Women of Kung Fu Festival at the Maybury Town Cinema, would you?




Yeah that's what I thought.

That's not fair footage ! And according to Hans it was late 70's and I did not have to go back and look . It was the Aragon name that confused me as I was thinking there was two different models .

Rayk said:

That's not fair footage ! And according to Hans it was late 70's and I did not have to go back and look .

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Having been there myself you have my sympathy, but in post #28 he says:
"The first ones that I've documented so far appeared towards the end of the year 1971."

Rayk said:

It was the Aragon name that confused me as I was thinking there was two different models

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Well starting in Tacoma there were, distinguished by nut width and topwood.
(IF you don't count the Westerly F30R)
BTW have you seen "Come Drink With Me"?

And recommend the sequel, "Golden Swallow" even more:

Cheng Pei.
Legendary.
Went on to play Jade Fox in "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon":

May I also recommend "House of Flying Daggers" as one of the most gorgeously filmed and heartbreaking romances of all time:

Lol...

I guess I could call this one Aragorn?

He's in the case slowly hydrating... I'm trying to get more info about the guitar, what is it they're not telling me?

I did play it again today, tuned down, and it took me on a little trip, and then another one, like my D35 does, but there's something about this one...

adorshki said:

Tacoma apparently revived the old names

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As did New Hartford. My unreliable memory recalls that the Traditional series had the name but the Standard series equivalent did not.

chazmo said:

GA, good luck with your new acquisition.

It happens all the time that dried out guitars *don't* crack. But in lieu of that, you'll almost certainly get geometry changes like warping in the top (belly, etc.), Usually combined with temperature extremes, you'll get neck block shift, which is ultimately going to require a neck reset or a bridge shave...

Anyway, I recommend you take the strings off (or just totally slack them) and case and humidify this guitar for maybe a week or two. As in over-humidify, that is. Not dripping wet, mind you but don't let your damp-its / sponges get hard. This will give you a starting point to see what this axe really needs.

Before you do that, though, you should use a light source and a mirror and really inspect for cracks and separated braces while it's dry. That'll let you know if you missed anything (which you might have). Often a thuddy or buzzy guitar could have bracing problems.

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Hey Chaz,

I missed this somehow but it must have worked subliminally because it's exactly what I'm doing, so it's heartening to see someone with a lot of experience recommend this rather than giving up on it (someone understandably hollering "Send it back!) which I can't, don't know why, but I want to keep it, of course I want to keep it, I think it's one of one, somehow, for better or worse...

I think that insane cold ("dry cold") on the way here is where got it, I think it sucked every bit of moisture out of it. Freezing can do that, it's weird... You go inside and get totally overheated, and you're sweating and you think I can't go back out in that frozen sh*t like this, but you do, and in less than two minutes, you're totally dried out and you're just fine under all your layers. Sub zero temps pulls the moisture from your clothing almost instantly.

Fantastic advice though, I do have two sponges in there, and I pull it out a couple times of day to see if I'm starting to get a little haze on the guitar, and feeling for the fret ends to retract (if you will) to the point where they don't feel like they need filed (this would be nice).

I do have some string tension on it, at least a step down, just because I want to play it. I couldn't see tuning it and detuning it everyday, too much instability? I tuned it way down and discovered a new sound, and wt?, but I can do pentatonic scale bends that sound like I'm playing my Tele, and it sounds gorgeous to boot tuned down like that a little.

It's already part of my guitar journey, this could be "the" guitar for me, I think I'm still looking for that one.

Anyway, it is responding to treatment quite well, and I may have misjudged the neck angle, per Adorshki's post. I don't want to cut down a nice 36" metal rule, but I desperately need a 24" rule, the one I'm using is an old Wescott 18", and it is misleading. On this guitar, the end of the fret board looks like it sloping downwards to the top, but the neck angle looks like it's dead on up by the nut, which has been replaced, the nut slots are silly high and that will be addressed. I finally bought the files, the good ones from Stew Mac, 10 piece set, and maybe half my guitars need attention there... looks like I'll be starting with this one.

Speaking of high nut slots, I was on the phone with a longtime guitar player friend down the road from us, and he says (this could be guitar lore, or true?) "the reason why the nut slots are always high on a off the shelf guitar is for volume", to make the guitar loud. It makes total sense. You go into a store, check out a couple guitars, one's louder than the others, you buy it.