Will bubble wrap eat nitro finishes?

[Rambozo96]

Fixing to ship off my 74’ Guild D-35 to Tom Jacobs to get the neck reset done on it and my concern is whenever or not the bubble wrap will eat at the finish or not.

 

[gjmalcyon]

Yes.

See this thread:

Guild's nitro finish and the dreaded guitar stand

Has anyone else here had the unfortunate incident of finding a rectangle mark on the back of their Guild after leaving it on a "A" frame type guitar stand? I nearly had a heart attack when I noticed this discoloring on the rosewood back of my mint D55. After reading up on this, I found out to...

letstalkguild.com

 

[davismanLV]

Yes, what gj said!! Wrap in cloth or paper first. Don't let the bubble wrap touch the finish.

 

[GAD]

I’m glad I posted in that thread so I don’t have to find all my “bubble wrap and lacquer” pics again.

 

[gjmalcyon]

I’m glad I posted in that thread so I don’t have to find all my “bubble wrap and lacquer” pics again.

Interestingly, a Google search for "bubble wrap marks on guitar" led to the images you posted in that thread.

 

[GAD]

Interestingly, a Google search for "bubble wrap marks on guitar" led to the images you posted in that thread.

I have more pics. Maybe I should post a quick and dirty article on the subject.

Edit: Done

 

[donnylang]

You know I’ve heard of this often, and I certainly believe it- but in many years of buying and selling probably over 100 guitars, I’ve placed bubble wrap inside the case touching the guitar and have received many vintage nitro guitars with bubble wrap- and have never encountered any problems.

Of course, once I became aware of this potential problem- I switched to craft paper for padding (it’s also cheaper and easier to store in a roll, so it was a win overall) …

But I do think there may be more variables at play. No idea but I would think a heat and humidity combo and particular types of bubble wrap would be factors. There are certain brands that are more “sticky” than others etc.

Now my one shocking moment with a guitar finish went as follows:

I was playing my beautiful old ‘66 Mark I one day. Now I’m a bit of a sweaty guy and I was wearing Old Spice deodorant. My right arm was resting over the guitar and I noticed the underarm area of my shirt was literally stuck to the guitar. When I peeled the shirt off slowly, I saw that the deodorant, sweat, and presumably heat combo had literally melted away a section of finish where an imprint of the t shirt remained. And nope, I could not clean or polish it off; it was permanent. But hey it smelled pretty nice in that area.

I switched to Tom’s brand natural deodorant after that ha. Got me thinking what the heck is in this stuff?

 

[fronobulax]

You know I’ve heard of this often, and I certainly believe it- but in many years of buying and selling probably over 100 guitars, I’ve placed bubble wrap inside the case touching the guitar and have received many vintage nitro guitars with bubble wrap- and have never encountered any problems.

Of course, once I became aware of this potential problem- I switched to craft paper for padding (it’s also cheaper and easier to store in a roll, so it was a win overall) …

But I do think there may be more variables at play. No idea but I would think a heat and humidity combo and particular types of bubble wrap would be factors. There are certain brands that are more “sticky” than others etc.

Now my one shocking moment with a guitar finish went as follows:

I was playing my beautiful old ‘66 Mark I one day. Now I’m a bit of a sweaty guy and I was wearing Old Spice deodorant. My right arm was resting over the guitar and I noticed the underarm area of my shirt was literally stuck to the guitar. When I peeled the shirt off slowly, I saw that the deodorant, sweat, and presumably heat combo had literally melted away a section of finish where an imprint of the t shirt remained. And nope, I could not clean or polish it off; it was permanent. But hey it smelled pretty nice in that area.

I switched to Tom’s brand natural deodorant after that ha. Got me thinking what the heck is in this stuff?

Tom's of Maine?

Natural Deodorant & Antiperspirant for Men and Women - Tom's of Maine

Browse antiperspirant and deodorant products from Tom's of Maine. Find the antiperspirant or deodorant that's right for you.

www.tomsofmaine.com

I met Tom a couple of decades ago. We were visiting family in Maine and as it happened we chose to go to "his" church several Sundays.

 

[donnylang]

Tom's of Maine?

Natural Deodorant & Antiperspirant for Men and Women - Tom's of Maine

Browse antiperspirant and deodorant products from Tom's of Maine. Find the antiperspirant or deodorant that's right for you.

www.tomsofmaine.com

I met Tom a couple of decades ago. We were visiting family in Maine and as it happened we chose to go to "his" church several Sundays.

Yep that’s the one!

 

[gjmalcyon]

I have more pics. Maybe I should post a quick and dirty article on the subject.

Edit: Done

Here:

Bubble Wrap is Bad for Lacquer Guitars

A quick and dirty post on why you should not use bubble wrap against a lacquer-finished guitar. https://www.gad.net/Blog/2021/09/16/bubble-wrap-bad-lacquer-guitars/

letstalkguild.com

 

[wileypickett]

I was staying with a friend once and brushed my teeth with Tom's shaving cream. (It comes in a tube for Pete's sake and was sitting right there, above the sink.)

 

[gjmalcyon]

I was staying with a friend once and brushed my teeth with Tom's shaving cream. (It comes in a tube for Pete's sake and was sitting right there, above the sink.)

Was it any good?

 

[Rambozo96]

You know I’ve heard of this often, and I certainly believe it- but in many years of buying and selling probably over 100 guitars, I’ve placed bubble wrap inside the case touching the guitar and have received many vintage nitro guitars with bubble wrap- and have never encountered any problems.

Of course, once I became aware of this potential problem- I switched to craft paper for padding (it’s also cheaper and easier to store in a roll, so it was a win overall) …

But I do think there may be more variables at play. No idea but I would think a heat and humidity combo and particular types of bubble wrap would be factors. There are certain brands that are more “sticky” than others etc.

Now my one shocking moment with a guitar finish went as follows:

I was playing my beautiful old ‘66 Mark I one day. Now I’m a bit of a sweaty guy and I was wearing Old Spice deodorant. My right arm was resting over the guitar and I noticed the underarm area of my shirt was literally stuck to the guitar. When I peeled the shirt off slowly, I saw that the deodorant, sweat, and presumably heat combo had literally melted away a section of finish where an imprint of the t shirt remained. And nope, I could not clean or polish it off; it was permanent. But hey it smelled pretty nice in that area.

I switched to Tom’s brand natural deodorant after that ha. Got me thinking what the heck is in this stuff?

I believe that stuff even eats poly finishes too. At least whatever Yamaha was using to finish guitars in 72’ because my FG-150 has a weird spot in the finish where my armpit usually lays where the clear coat is pitted. I think it also did a number on my D-25 and my Kay arch top before I finally made the connection.

 

[wileypickett]

Was it any good?

It was OK. After the first taste, I inspected the tube and read "shaving cream" on the label. But having committed myself, I finished the job.

Those of you with pets have probably had your vet recommend brushing your dog's or cat's teeth at some point. I never thought my cat would stand for it, but eventually he more or less got used to it.

The poultry flavored toothpaste probably helped.

Guitarist John Fahey stayed with me for a few days once. I walked by the bathroom one morning and noticed he was brushing his teeth with the poultry flavored cat toothpaste. He didn't say anything and neither did I.

 

[walrus]

wiley, you need to write a memoir of all of these stories you have posted on LTG - and you probably have more, right?

I'd buy it!

walrus

 

[RBSinTo]

As I read more and more about the fragility of Nitrocellulose finishes, I wonder why it is preferable to use them on guitars and ukeleles, as opposed to leaving the wood bare.
Doesn't the application of a hard protective coat impede the vibration of the wood, and thus dampen the instruments voice?
RBSinTo

 

[fronobulax]

As I read more and more about the fragility of Nitrocellulose finishes, I wonder why it is preferable to use them on guitars and ukeleles, as opposed to leaving the wood bare.
Doesn't the application of a hard protective coat impede the vibration of the wood, and thus dampen the instruments voice?
RBSinTo

Someone who knows what they are talking about will be along but wooden instruments have had some kind of finish for centuries. Stradivarius didn't leave instruments bare. So the benefits of a finish almost certainly outweigh the possible cost in tone or volume.

 

[RBSinTo]

Fronobulax,
With respect, Mr. Stradivarius wasn't concerned about the effects of various man-made organic compounds on the finish when he was lovingly shellaccing his fiddles, so I don't necessarily agree with you regarding the use of suseptable finishes today.
I'd still be interested in hearing from a Luthier who builds as well as repairs guitars for their thoughts on how finish affects sound quality, and if it lessens it, is the protection the finish offers worth that loss?
Saying we've always done it this way, isn't, to my mind, the greatest reason for continuing to do so.
RBSinTo

 

[fronobulax]

Fronobulax,
With respect, Mr. Stradivarius wasn't concerned about the effects of various man-made organic compounds on the finish when he was lovingly shellaccing his fiddles, so I don't necessarily agree with you regarding the use of suseptable finishes today.
I'd still be interested in hearing from a Luthier who builds as well as repairs guitars for their thoughts on how finish affects sound quality, and if it lessens it, is the protection the finish offers worth that loss?
Saying we've always done it this way, isn't, to my mind, the greatest reason for continuing to do so.
RBSinTo

I was reacting to your suggestion that bare wood might be somehow better than wood with a finish. The historical record clearly indicates a preference for non-bare wood. I am not trying to explain why. Maybe it is cheaper? Maybe bare wood absorbing skin oils has a detrimental effect on tone? Maybe it keeps players from getting splinters?

Since many decisions can be explained by economics I think the fact that bare wood is not prevalent in the mainstream market suggests the finish has an effect on the bottom line. But that could be because no one buys bare guitars or because buyers think finished guitars look and sound better or no one bothered to try because they don't expect it to make a difference.

I recall but cannot find some LTG discussion on NCL vs. Poly as a finish and whether the thicker poly had a noticeable impact on tone. It didn't and the attempts at a science and physics based justification for that observation seem to me to apply to bare vs. finished as well.

The question of "difference" vs. "noticeable difference" might be in play as well.

Your point about "how we have always done it" being a barrier to innovation is noted but not finishing the wood seems to me to be such an obvious experiment that we would have had more evidence of it working across centuries if it actually made a noticeable difference.

 

[davismanLV]

Shellac is a beautiful finish. One of the prettiest. And easy to work. But fragile and not terribly durable. Same with French Polished finishes (shellac based). But the whole point is to protect the wood from the elements and also from the "schmutz" of life. Even oil based finishes provide some protection but oil is heavy and going into the wood thus changing it's characteristics. Poly is a super durable finish and now that it's been formulated for musical instruments so that it isn't so thick and restrictive, provides a LOT of protection. Lacquer is fast, easy to work, dries relatively quickly and is repairable to spot refinish as it is it's own solvent. It melts into itself.

Life is dirty, and wood is porous and if it's not protected will stain, and degrade while it absorbs the filth of life. Someone drops a Screwdriver (drink, not tool) near your guitar on a stand. Alcohol will damage most finishes, especially shellac (alcohol is the base of shellac) and orange juice will stain. Sweat will stain. Everything will stain. I think for what's lost in sound reproduction (minimal) the protection it provides makes it mandatory. Plus people want their guitars to look beautiful and if they're stained, they don't want stain coming off on their skin and clothes.

Unless there is some magical new finish that floats above the wood like a force field (requiring energy) but allows the wood to breathe and such, I think current finishes are just fine. Plus, since wood is so porous and absorbs moisture and expands and contracts it's better for the glued and joined pieces to have their absorption limited at least a bit, otherwise the joints would fail.

This is what I've come up with to answer your question.