White Room

Canard

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An acquaintance, who is a studio musician and who was once the killer lead guitarist of a minor but recorded Canadian Rock group (he got kicked out when the band decided they wanted to try their chart/financial luck with a softer MOR sound), once explained the dynamics of group disintegration. It is this: the group gets a recording contract; they get a charting single; the song writer comes to rehearsal in his/her new Audi; the rest of the group comes on the bus or on foot; resentment builds.

Jack Bruce wrote pretty much all of Cream’s hits. He could actually write/arrange (as in pencil and stave paper) music. Clapton in retrospect called Cream a “good Jack Bruce band.”

White Room is probably my favourite Cream song. Jack wrote it. But Jack wrote the cello section in straight 4/4. In rehearsal, Ginger Baker, the drummer, insisted that it was wrong, wrong, wrong, so very, very wrong. He made Jack do the section as a bolero. Try to imagine the song with that section in straight 4/4. It just doesn’t work. It is a great song, but pull Eric or Ginger out of it and it so very very much less - particularly Ginger – he contributes so much to feel and drive of the song. But Jack and Pete Brown, the lyricist, got all the royalties. Ginger, like so many great drummers, was bitter, bitter, bitter.

The original with Jack’s cello




Live 1968 – Jack’s cello parts sung by Jack and Eric




Live 2005 – Jack’s voice is a little more ragged but the band is better because they’re all straight and a lot more professional.




Imagine the piece as something from the 18th century – sort of works but it needs Ginger on tambour (especially in the bolero section) and Jack on viols.

2021-04-19 09.04.01 duckduckgo.com 1b686bbf10a4.png


Daniel Estrem on Lute





Imagine the piece as something French, pre-WWII – sort of works except for the bolero section.

2021-04-19 09.09.12 duckduckgo.com ba5ea6bc806d.png


Van Django

 
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Westerly Wood

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it's not a bad song. definitely not one of my faves.

but Crossroads, that song is just flat out great! mostly cause the solo guitar Clapton lays throughout just cannot be reproduced. his rolling chord changes and segues from one section to the other are just incredible.
 
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Canard

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but Crossroads, that song is just flat out great! for me,.

Only partially wrong by the addition of the limiting phrase "for me." ;)

A more correct universal statement that I could share in would be:

but Crossroads, that song is just flat out great!

but Crossroads, that song is just flat out great! for me, mostly cause the solo guitar Clapton lays throughout just cannot be reproduced. his rolling chord changes and segues from one section to the other are just incredible.

Most heartily agreed. It is one of the finest performances (of many fine performances) in Clapton's long career.
 

Westerly Wood

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Only partially wrong by the addition of the limiting phrase "for me." ;)

A more correct universal statement that I could share in would be:

Most heartily agreed. It is one of the finest performances (of many fine performances) in Clapton's long career.


awesome!
 

walrus

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That is a common story. The main reason Mahavishnu Orchestra broke up is John McLaughlin was getting all the royalties. He was using the Miles Davis model of "the band leader is the composer". But in that kind of instrumental band each member is really composing different parts of each song that they themselves play, etc. McLaughlin later admitted his error, but by then it was too late.

So many bands like this. with The Police it's almost all Sting royalties, but do they sell any records without the contributions of the other two members?

One interesting exception is the band Rush, which split the royalties three ways - lyrics by Peart, music by Lee/Lifeson.

walrus
 

Westerly Wood

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One interesting exception is the band Rush, which split the royalties three ways - lyrics by Peart, music by Lee/Lifeson.
walrus

right? like Townshend gets most of the Who royalties. They tour to help out Roger and mostly to help out John (when he was alive)...

I watched an interview with Getty Lee and he says, way back when they started, they just decided to split it all 3 ways, and never looked back or wondered about it.
 

Canard

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The Aussie guitarist/singer/songwriter, John Butler, lost his long time friend and soulmate, the (great) drummer Nicky Bomba, from the John Butler Trio, I suspect, over the same issue. Bomba left. But Butler, a very gifted songwriter, made a mistake. Instead of just sharing royalties with the band, he actually made the writing of the songs a communal effort, I think. The album after Bomba's departure was pretty substandard by everything that went before. Things must have gotten patched up somewhat, though, because Bomba came back for a tour when Butler gave his new drummer paternity leave to be with his wife and newborn child.

I also have a boot somewhere of The Who. It is interesting, very interesting. Roger had laryngitis, and he is not actually singing. He is just on stage, lip-syncing, dancing around, and swinging the mic around on its cord. Pete is doing all the vocals and doing quite a good job with them. Roger is just mouthing the words. You can almost hear the wheels turning in Pete's head - do I really need this guy? Pete started doing solo albums a little later.
 
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wileypickett

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The Doors decided at the outset that all four members would share composer royalties. Quite a boon for Densmore and Manzarek, who (though heavily involved in the arrangements and a big part of what gave the band their sound) didn't write.

But that's pretty unusual. In fact, I can't think of any other examples.

But you gotta give the writers their due -- without material, there's nothing to play, to arrange, etc.

There was a lot of resentment, for instance, among members of Creedence Clearwater that Fogerty was getting the bulk of the writer royalties. (Even though the band was being taken to the cleaners by their label.)

So Fogerty gave the other members the opportunity to write material. The results showed that without Fogerty, there was, for all intents, no CCR.
 
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walrus

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The Doors decided at the outset that all four members would share composer royalties. Quite a boon for Densmore and Manzarek, who (though heavily involved in the arrangements and a big part of what gave the band their sound) didn't write.

But that's pretty unusual. In fact, I can't think of any other examples.

But you gotta give the writers their due -- without material, there's nothing to play, to arrange, etc.

There was a lot of resentment, for instance, among members of Creedence Clearwater that Fogerty was getting the bulk of the writer royalties. (Even though the band was being taken to the cleaners by their label.)

So Fogerty gave the other members the opporunity to write material. The results showed that without Fogerty, there was, for all intents, no CCR.

And of course, they REALLY went at it over the use of the band's name - lawsuits, etc. Very messy.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/t...ing dispute over,recently using the band name.

walrus
 

walrus

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That was a joke, son. Clapton is a master.

Now you tell me! I just gave you a "like"! :)

Sacrilegious perhaps, and no disrespect to his immense talent, but his work outside of Cream does little for me. Something about those three musicians together really works. It's a musical taste issue, not a guitar playing talent issue. To each his own.

walrus
 
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crank

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How are a cup of strong coffee and Eric Clapton the same? They both suck without Cream.
Gonna have to disagree strongly with this. Long time Clapton fan here who has never liked Cream.
 

Canard

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I love how this thread strays.

If you have not seen the Clapton Bio-Documentary, A Life in Twelve Bars, you should seek it out. It comes and goes on Youtube as the copyright/distribution-right holders keep having it taken down. You can find it in the sketchier corners of the Internet, though, places where you definitely want to have your computer security locked down and all your AV/Anti-Malware shields up at full strength.

It is not pretty, very, very much not pretty. It shows Clapton warts, carbuncles, boils and all, a miserable and miserably unhappy self-destructive human being. Clapton collaborated with the film makers, so I guess it is his shot at self-redemption. You can't get over, under, or around the problems and miseries in your life if you don't put them out in full view. No self-forgiveness without self-confession. And you can't really ask others for forgiveness if you can't forgive yourself. It ends on an up beat note with Clapton finding some happiness and security with his new family.
 

Guildedagain

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White Room is iconic, and so is Crossroads in the same way.

I actually thought to myself at one time if they offered you one last song, like they do your last meal, it would be Crossroads.

Nowadays, I'm not sure.
 

cupric

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Love the scene in The Last Waltz when Robbie outplayed Clapton.....And Clapton knew it! But that's another example, The Band. Robbie got everything.
 

fronobulax

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Never idolized Clapton. Always thought Cream/White Room was kinda meh.

The whole copyright/royalty system could certainly be upgraded although I'm not smart enough to propose a fix. You write a song with lyrics, a chord progression and melody. I improvise a bass line. You change nothing after hearing me. Your song, not mine. We record it with me playing my bass line. Then a publisher comes along and bases the publication on the recorded version with my bass line almost verbatim in the published version. Did that elevate my contribution to a songwriting credit? Maybe it turns out that my bass line is the riff that drives the recording? Does my status change?

I suspect the current system's roots in a time when there was a profession of "songwriter" and the song existed in some form before it as recorded or performed explain a lot. I blame the rise of the "singer/songwriter" for the mess we have now :)
 
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