Westerly Collection Serial Number "Decoder"

SFIV1967

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O.k., it's not really a final decoder yet but I started to wonder what the new Westerly Collection serial numbers mean.

To better understand this I first researched Cordoba Guitars serial numbers.
The lower end Cordoba instruments do not even have a serial number. According to the Cordoba Guitars webpage, the following instruments are not serialized: CP110, C3M, C3M Cadete, Cadete, Dolce, C5, C5-CE, C5-CET, the La Playa Traveler and Ukulele, and all ukuleles except for the 25 series.

O.k, now I looked at Cordoba Guitars serial numbers:

Cordoba brand guitars Made in Spain: (4 real serial numbers posted below)
3110814, 3140591, 3150035, 3150159
It looks like: 7 digit serial number, always starts with 3 = Spain, 11 or 14 of 15 is manufacturing year, the last 4 digits are the running numbers for a max of 9,999 guitars per year from Spain.

Cordoba brand guitars Made in China: (4 real serial numbers posted below)
11101874, 11303220, 11508107, 11515267
It looks like: 8 digit serial number, always starts with 1 = China, 11 or 13 of 15 is manufacturing year, the last 5 digits are the running numbers for a max of 99,999 guitars per year from China.

I also found real serial numbers of an Oxnard made Cordoba Torres and a Hauser model: 81300055, 81500363
It looks like: 8 digit serial number, starts with 8 = Oxnard, 13 or 15 is manufacturing year, the last 5 digits are the running numbers for a max of 99,999 guitars per year. (thats a good goal for the custom shop!)


And now to compare: Guild Westerly Collection: (3 real 2015 serial numbers posted below)
G1150461, G1151487, G1155321
It looks like: 8 digit serial number, always starts with G1 = Guild China, 15 is manufacturing year, the last 4 digits are the running numbers for a max of 9,999 Guild Westerly Collection guitars per year from China.
(Update: In 2018 and 2019 the G2 numbers have 5 digits at the end allowing 99,999 per year.)

The "G1" guitars have GREE hangtags like the GAD guitars had. The below is a GREE hangtag (note the GR around) from a 2013 made GAD model and Moritz and Big-Al confirmed that the same style hangtag with GR border was on G1 serial numbered Westerly Collection models from 2015.

Endkontrolle 71153.jpg

In 2017 it shortly got really confusing as a 2017 made D-120 and a F-1512E had no longer a 1 after the G ! They only had G and 6 numbers afterwards!
An example serial number is simply G170122 or the pictured G170693. In any case the 17 stands again for year 2017.

G.JPG

My theory regarding this was: The new California produced 2017 guitars have serial numbers like C170815 (a D-20 as example). Maybe CMG changed the serial number system also for GREE, hence GREE made Guild Acoustics from some point in 2017 onwards simply with G and 6 numbers behind, same as California made Guilds use C with 6 numbers.

But that last theory does not work as actual serial numbers in stores from 2018 and 2019 still (or again) have G1, G2 and G3 serial numbers.

So yes, we also got G2 and G3 numbers over time.
I have not yet figured out what the 1, 2 or 3 behind the G exactly means.

A M-120 as example and older models are still G1...,
Jumbo Juniors, M-240, D-240, M-240, OM-240, F2512 are G2...,
and F-250, P-240,... for instance start with G3...

It might have to do with new factories or just new series, so i
t is not 100% clear if G2 and G3 Westerly Collection guitars still come from GREE or also from other factories in China now.
Only if a new buyer would get a hangtag (as shown above) with the guitar we might see this.


G3 got a new style label at least. Also note the interesting fact that only the G2 numbered guitars have an additional kind of former GAD style manufacturing factory number below the label! I show a 2018 and a 2019 example here.

G1.JPG
G2.JPG G2.JPG
G3.JPG




Now looking at the round soundhole labels from left to right a G1 (100 and 1000 series), G2 (M-240E) and G3 (F-250E Deluxe) label.
The P-240 Memoir also has a G3 number but its own unique soundhole label.
G1 is still the old style label as of 2019 and G2 and G3 labels are a more modern design showing "Designed in California" on the soundhole labels similar to what Apple does...Also they don't longer show "Westerly Collection" on the labels.

G1 label.JPG G2 label.JPG G3 label.JPG G3 P-240.JPG


Ralf
(with updated info as of January 2020)
 
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jc2940

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Looking to date Guild Starfire Bass II with serial # AG1002xx
Thanks for any assistance that can be provided
 

SFIV1967

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Looking to date Guild Starfire Bass II with serial # AG1002xx
This number is not in the published serial number lists as it was produced after 1997, but only Hans Moust can confirm the exact year. Wait until he answers.

Ralf
 
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jc2940

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Thank You SFIV1967 for the info. Waiting for some input from Hans Moust.
Thanks again
JC
 

adorshki

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I found real serial numbers of an Oxnard made Cordoba Torres and a Hauser model:
81300055, 81500363
It looks like: 8 digit serial number, starts with 8 = Oxnard, 13 or 15 is manufacturing year, the last 5 digits are the running numbers for a max of 99,999 guitars per year. (thats a good goal for the custom shop!)
Does anybody know if Guild has made that many over the entire course of their history yet?
:glee:
It would be great to check this in a year from now and see if that system is the real decoder or not. (It still does not answer which factory makes the Westerly Collection and if it is still GREE).
Ralf
I'm 99.9% positive the inspection tags that come with Westerly Collection guitars have that same stylized "GREE" border on them, just can't recall who's mentioned it recently for confirmation..I might try to run a search in a bit, if you don't beat me to it..
 

Big-Al

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Does anybody know if Guild has made that many over the entire course of their history yet?
:glee:

I'm 99.9% positive the inspection tags that come with Westerly Collection guitars have that same stylized "GREE" border on them, just can't recall who's mentioned it recently for confirmation..I might try to run a search in a bit, if you don't beat me to it..
The Westerly Collection D-140 I just received from Amazon had the QC tag on it with the stylized repeated "GR" border on it.

The QC tag was from mid-2016 but the guitar's serial number started with G115, so the 15 in the serial number apparently does not correspond directly with the year of the guitar.
 
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SFIV1967

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The Westerly Collection D-140 I just received from Amazon had the QC tag on it with the stylized repeated "GR" border on it.
The QC tag was from mid-2016 but the guitar's serial number started with G115, so the 15 in the serial number apparently does not correspond directly with the year of the guitar.
Thanks for the confirmation! Yes, it was noticed from the very beginning of the Newark St. and the Westerly Collection in 2014 that the years and years in the serial numbers were somewhat off from each other. Like they forgot to change the dates when a year changed...Because I can't believe that they had loads produced in inventory before they inspected them and that would explain a 6 month difference.
Had the QC tag also red Chinese stamps on it?
Ralf
 

adorshki

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...Because I can't believe that they had loads produced in inventory before they inspected them and that would explain a 6 month difference.
Had the QC tag also red Chinese stamps on it?
Ralf
I was thinking the same thing myself, but it just occurred to me, maybe they really did do that.
If for example a deal was made for a certain number of units to be built, but only delivered in several increments, GREE wouldn't be taking any real risk of getting stuck with unsold product and the cost savings of producing a single large production run might more than offset the cost of storage while waiting for a "shipping release" from Cordoba?
And so there's no pressing need to inspect the product until it's going to ship?
It's a model used in the US in some industries.
 

Big-Al

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Thanks for the confirmation! Yes, it was noticed from the very beginning of the Newark St. and the Westerly Collection in 2014 that the years and years in the serial numbers were somewhat off from each other. Like they forgot to change the dates when a year changed...Because I can't believe that they had loads produced in inventory before they inspected them and that would explain a 6 month difference.
Had the QC tag also red Chinese stamps on it?
Ralf
No red Chinese stamps on the tag. Just various blue and red stamped numbers and a date. GREE supposedly produces about 13,000 guitars per month. I agree that they are almost certainly not building inventory ahead of time and waiting to inspect it for months. That could be a LOT of guitars. I think that the most likely reason there is a discrepancy between the serial number and the production year, is that they aren't related. The case had a "Pass Certificate" in it dating from about a month before the guitar hang tag. I suspect that as soon as the guitar was completed, it was inspected, cased, boxed, and shipped.

Another possible explanation for the "15" in the serial number of a guitar inspected in late April of 2016 is that the number corresponds to some sort of internal order number dating from 2015.
 
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Rayk

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I’ll add to this if can help when I get my guitar even if it goes back lol
 

cutrofiano

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Hi Ralf,
what about my GAD:





Would this be No. 96, built 09/20/2013 ?
That would mean there were two month between built and quality control.

Moritz
 
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adorshki

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Hi Ralf,
what about my GAD:





Would this be No. 96, built 09/20/2013 ?
That would mean there were two month between built and quality control.

Moritz
I do definitely recall that the GAD's under Fender used a system that tied those numbers on the block to a purchase order number from Fender, and they didn't contain an embedded date code.
Unless my memory's in error.
But 99.9% sure Ralf also found a decoder system for those, as well, because prior to that the only way to know was to contact Fender's corporate headquarters in Scottsdale AZ.
 

SFIV1967

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I do definitely recall that the GAD's under Fender used a system that tied those numbers on the block to a purchase order number from Fender, and they didn't contain an embedded date code.
Unless my memory's in error. But 99.9% sure Ralf also found a decoder system for those, as well...
Hi Al, you only remember part of the story. GAD model had two numbers, one on the round label in the soundhole and a second on the neck block. The GAD number on the label is a factory internal number, the date information is on the neck block inside the body.

All GAD instruments are stamped with a 10 digit manufacturing number located inside at the base of the neck heel block. This number embodies production information about the instrument.
In Moritz' example above the first two digits of this number identify the production year. 13 stands for 2013.
The second two digits identify the production month. In this case, 09 is September.
The next two digits, 20, are of no significance and are an internal number used to identify an order number. (so it is not the day of the month)
The last four digits identify the unit number of this specific order. In this case, 96 would stand for the 96th instrument made to the 20th order.

Ralf
 

chazmo

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Just to recall a previous post from Ralf about the earlier GAD series during the Fender era. This doesn't apply to the Westerly series, I think, but putting it here for posterity, and I'm going to pin this thread:

You actually don't need a serial number list for GADs! It's all printed inside the GAD! The real manufacturing date is actually coded in the manufacturing number that is internally stamped on the base of the heel block! So you need to use a lamp and a mirror most probably.
FMIC's hotline just doesn't know that...We actually discussed this quite a few times here already.

The GAD manufacturing info is not on the label (that's just a factory number) but on the neck block inside the body!
All GAD instruments are stamped with a 10 digit internal manufacturing number located inside at the base of the heel block. This number embodies production information about the instrument.
As an example, we’ll use a random number 1104330026.
The first two digits of this number identify the production year. In this case, 11 would stand for 2011.
The second two digits identify the production month. In this case, 04 would stand for April.
The next two digits, 33, are of no significance and are an internal number used by the vendor to identify their order number.
The last four digits identify the unit number of the order. In this case, 26 would stand for the 26th instrument made to the 33rd order.
 
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