USPS in serious trouble

[CA-35]

Don't shoot the messenger but the USPS can't do it either without losing money. You cannot deliver door to door for 50 cent. No business in the world could survive. They need to stop the door to door delivery...it's killing them.

I strongly disagree with eliminating door to door service. i like getting my mail delivered. What about you?
And I like that part about keeping OOPS and Federal Distress honest.

Don't let your passion cloud your judgement Al. They can't do it and they continue to lose money trying to do it. Doctors use to make house calls too and they stopped that. Did people die because of it? No. They use to home deliver ice and milk but now you go to the grocer. Will it be harder for some to get to the Post Office to p/u the mail? Yes, sorry, that's what Taxi Cabs and Family are for. The USPS needs to think outside the proverbial home mail "box".

Let me ask you this question. What mail do you get at home that isn't junk mail or solicitations anyway?? All my bills come electronically. Every one. I have no use for my mail box. Family sends e-mail. Gifts come UPS or FED X.

They will continue to lose market share to competitors that blow them away with customer service, package tracking, and ON TIME deliveries. They will continue to lose businesses that use to buy bulk mailings that now reach more people more frequently because of electronic media. Are they considerably more expensive? Yes. But you get what you pay for. It's not personal, I love my Postman, it's business.

 

[Default]

The Postal Service is one of the few things government does of which I approve. That said, the structure they have set up is unsustainable. It cannot be a public service and a for-profit institution.

The reason they pushed for being "for profit" was to allow for a relatively small (esp. compared to private industry) surplus to allow for unplanned, unbudgeted expenses. Remember when gas prices doubled from a buck and change to over two dollars and change over night? I'm sure you do. When it takes you six months to a year to change your rates as part of being a government institution, it's extremely difficult to plan for issues like that. Natural disaster (Katrina)? Not in the budget. Somebody flies a plane into a significant customer population and you have huge volume of mail that has to be forwarded or routed through other stations. Not in the budget. Anthrax? Not in the budget. Do you remember the constant complaining that the PO was a "money-losing failure"? Some might have forgotten that, but you probably can't complain too much about the eggshells on the countertop when you are enjoying your omelet.
It's nice that you get email and your family ships their packages through work. That's ok. There is room for other players at the table. Fedex moves the parcels that we move in a week, although it takes them all year to do it. UPS is a little better, it takes them a year to move what we do in a month. It's fine that you aren't a customer. There is no reason to expect that everyone else to have the same needs that you do. You may not do a lot of small shipping. There are a lot of people and small businesses who use us to ship ebay sales. They would get hammered if they have to pay UPS/Fedex prices to ship.
As I said, the PO would have broken even or turned a small profit if we did not have to pay for the retirement of staff who are not yet hired, who will never be hired in the numbers the organization has to pay for. At least we have no stockholders to siphon dividend money (operating capital) away from the company.
Again, this is part of the contract negotiation process that plays out every 3-4 years. The USPS is not going away, much to the chagrin of of the smaller shippers.
That being said, I would love to see Delivery Confirmation replaced with a real tracking system, but that service "is what it is", a way for shippers to confirm that the parcel got delivered. I would love to see the offices open early and late, so people can conduct their business in a way that is convenient for them. There a LOT of things we could do better, but I'm not in charge. If it weren't for the plumber coming in top do some work, I would be in work right now. I've been working 6 days a week, usually two hours overtime every day. Does that sound like we're going out of business? 8)

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Scott: in 2009, several employees of the FL DMV License office in Boynton Beach FL (Palm Beach County) were arrested and convicted of selling phony licenses to illegal aliens. The FL DMV, in part due to the Boynton Beach affair and prodding from Homeland Security (several 9-11 terrorists had been in FL with phony ID), revamped its ID requirements for new/renewal FL licenses.

Although I took a valid Passport (proof of citizenship leveraged off a raised-seal birth certificate) and my original Social Security card (recently required by the DMV), I was turned away because I didn't have utility bills in my name to the address on my driver's license. I didn't live that far away, went home and got them, and took care of the renewal.

I don't know what the current requirements are in Broward County but, when you renew your license, you too may be required to provide hard-copy bills that validate your home address. This isn't necessarily a reason to justify USPS home mail delivery but it is a benefit and I don't know if your email address will work or not. If you rent, you may be required to produce a lease ... if you own, you may be required to produce a title - otherwise and besides your word, there'd be no reason to believe you live where you say you do which is the point of the new red-tape in the first place.

Receiving and paying bills on-line is a life-style choice; you're right, if you receive bills on-line, you get only junk mail. I'm old ... and have a preference for hard-copy invoices; I pay on-line, but I want a real bill which I'll pay with e-money. And thanks, but I don't want to take a taxi to the PO to pick up mail or packages ... unless you're willing to pay the cab fare ...

 

[Default]

Sorry guys. No offense taken or meant. I understand the idea of the PO having to change. By embracing automation as completely as they have, they have almost eliminated the handwork that used to be the way things go done. There is no massive army of clerks sorting letters anymore. That's done by machines that can do 600 letters a minute. We are moving to a model where the carrier walks in the door and starts loading the mail into the truck. We don't stand at the case sorting for 3 and a half hours like when I started. Automation has pretty much eliminated most non-delivery time.

Like most of the other modern complaints, it is "c'est le economie".

 

[West R Lee]

Steve, I guess I don't understand why the Federal government can't do what the company I work for has done.

Yes, about 13 years ago, they cut our pensions by over 1/3, but hey, at least we still have a pension, and they are now required by law to keep the fund fully funded. That was long enough ago that we could make a choice....choose to live on what was left of our pension, or pour as much money as we could into a 401k and supplement our pension with those funds......essentially taking more responsibily for our financial futures. We've had to learn to do without some things, sacrifice is just part of the deal, but I take responsiblity for the brunt of my financial security. As time went on, gradually, new hire emplyees were converted over to a retirement system in which the company contributes as do the new employees. And unlike my defined benefit pension, new employees retirement is portable.

There are things about these changes that I don't like, but the fact is that it keeps the company viable and my pension money is still there (what's left of it).......for now anyway. I've also seen many projections in which new employees, if they contribute the same way I do to a 401k, will have savings that far exceed mine when they are ready to retire. I didn't care for having to give something up which had been promised to me, but we did it, and we're still kicking, and the company I work for is doing well. As far as the leaders of my company making a fortune....well the way I look at that is that they call the shots, I do what they tell me and they pay me......it's just the way it is.

Obviously these decisions are way over your head, as they were mine. It just seems to make more sense to make adjustments to the benefits of future employees, who may or may not work there one day, than to jeapordize the viability of the entire organization. Times change and the way we do things here had to change with the times.......it's all just an opinion though. I'm obviously ignorant of your situation, or that of USPS, just sharing with you what has worked down here.

West

 

[Default]

Because your company is not required to fund pensions for hypothetical workers in addition to actual employees. In order to maintain a slight amount of money to plan for future unbudgeted issues, the previous management agreed to essentially pay additional money for people who they might hire. However, that was back when mail volume was growing by 5% a year. Additionally, the then PMG was handed a formula that mandated funding at the higher civil service rate instead of Fers, which is cheaper. Unlike private industry, when you make a deal with the feds, you have to abide with it, even if you are getting clobbered by it. As part of the government, you are beholden to provide service to your patrons, even if it makes life difficult. Even worse, you're expected to live up to your agreements.

On the other hand, it does make life better for me, in a way, because there are no conflicts of interest. We exist to serve the public, not to overpay some executive or to have stockholders leach away capital.

Hey, I'm sorry that you got screwed by your company 13 years ago. Just like me, you have to take responsibility for your finances. You still might have a better pension than I will. I don't know. Then again, I can't retire until 67 (age and time served of 80 years). You company might also turn into Sun Oil, where they are divesting themselves of the refining business, the exploration business as well as all other parts of the corporation that don't directly involve gasoline sales and mini-marts.
You have no security at all if the CEO/board of directors decide that they don't have to abide by their agreements. I appreciate that you can make lemonade out of lemons by "taking responsibility for your finances", but when it really comes down to it, you have no control over what happens to your investments. None. All it takes is another Wall Street collapse, another Bernie Madoff Ponsi scheme, and your investments are gone. Maybe not even that. Maybe, some investor group will buy the company and loot whatever pension arrangement you have now. Maybe just my stockbroker will guess wrong.
Good thing I like cat food.

 

[Default]

Just to clarify, we are paying for employees' retirement funds who will *never* be hired. It's called a hidden tax.

 

[capnjuan]

I bid 2 No Trump and one of my amps for Sun Oil's Marcus Hook facility ... I haven't heard back yet.

 

[West R Lee]

Because your company is not required to fund pensions for hypothetical workers in addition to actual employees. In order to maintain a slight amount of money to plan for future unbudgeted issues, the previous management agreed to essentially pay additional money for people who they might hire. However, that was back when mail volume was growing by 5% a year. Additionally, the then PMG was handed a formula that mandated funding at the higher civil service rate instead of Fers, which is cheaper. Unlike private industry, when you make a deal with the feds, you have to abide with it, even if you are getting clobbered by it. As part of the government, you are beholden to provide service to your patrons, even if it makes life difficult. Even worse, you're expected to live up to your agreements.

On the other hand, it does make life better for me, in a way, because there are no conflicts of interest. We exist to serve the public, not to overpay some executive or to have stockholders leach away capital.

Hey, I'm sorry that you got screwed by your company 13 years ago. Just like me, you have to take responsibility for your finances. You still might have a better pension than I will. I don't know. Then again, I can't retire until 67 (age and time served of 80 years). You company might also turn into Sun Oil, where they are divesting themselves of the refining business, the exploration business as well as all other parts of the corporation that don't directly involve gasoline sales and mini-marts.
You have no security at all if the CEO/board of directors decide that they don't have to abide by their agreements. I appreciate that you can make lemonade out of lemons by "taking responsibility for your finances", but when it really comes down to it, you have no control over what happens to your investments. None. All it takes is another Wall Street collapse, another Bernie Madoff Ponsi scheme, and your investments are gone. Maybe not even that. Maybe, some investor group will buy the company and loot whatever pension arrangement you have now. Maybe just my stockbroker will guess wrong.
Good thing I like cat food.

Nah, it's not quite that bad Steve. At the company I work for, we must have 85 points, length of service plus age. I'm over 54 years old with over 31 years service, so I'm a tad over 85 points right now. I now qualify for a full pension, just can't afford to do it....and I'm too young to stop working anyway. Though I'm not so sure it's the wisest choice, most that I've worked with chose the lump sum, then invest on their own. I'm looking very hard at the meager annuity, not only because it is insured, but becuase I can't draw the interest income off of the lump sum that equals the annuity. Regardless, most chose to get their hands on their lump sum and take contol of their destiny.

Sure my company can divest themselves of interests at anytime, they always could, but they've been at it at my location for 61 years so I'm not too concerned about that at this point. I've had my salary cut in hard times and had it restored in good ones.

As far as working until I'm 67, I can't physically do what I do at that age.....few people could. Heck, I can barely physically do what I do now.

As far as someone buying us out, or looting our pension fund, my pension fund is guaranteed by and regulated by the Federal government, just like yours I'm sure. Once I retire, I have an option of an annuity, which is insured, or a lump sum, which is not. If my company is sold, and I lose my job, I not only get my pension, but a year's salary, retraining if desired and 6 months of health care....if I want it (I qualify for company health care with 85 points). I hope it never happens though. But the fact is that even you are vulnerable to some of those cuts that you mention. Who'd have ever thought 10 years ago that our government would ever be looking at cutting Social Security or Medicare? But I heard that just last night in a speech. Both programs considered untouchable not long ago. It doesn't matter what I think or believe, it's reality.

I do know that these benefits are generous, but pretty standard in the related industry. In fact, I've seen some better. It's not much, but it has taken a lifetime to earn.

I do wish you guys luck.......you'll not find bigger fan of USPS than myself. And I'm not saying that USPS employees should give anything up, only that USPS management (and especially the Feds) should probably look at benefit options for future employees. We would all like to think that future generations will have it better than we do, but a 21 year old guy would stand a much better chance of coping with benefit cuts with a lifetime of earning power than you or I would at our age.

West

 

[adorshki]

Don't let your passion cloud your judgement Al.

It ain't passion. For me to drive to a post office to pickup mail is a gigantic pita. Even on Saturday morning when they close early. If it's gonna be "business hours only", what am I sposed to do, take the time off work?

Let me ask you this question. What mail do you get at home that isn't junk mail or solicitations anyway?? All my bills come electronically. Every one. I have no use for my mail box. Family sends e-mail.

AS a matter of fact, I DO get all my bills in the traditional manner. I WANT hard copy. It's cheap insurance against a digital storage failure, which is a question of when, not if.
Not only that, I sell paper. See what I'm getting at? That junk mail is what my customers the printers sell. Paper is still demonstrably an environmentally cleaner product than plastic or electronic media with it's associated toxic waste of production, let alone "reclamation" of discarded products.
Beyond that, I WANT hard copy of some of those offers that come through that I may not want to act on immediatley and that I may never see electronically because they're from local merchants.
"Save trees" is a b------t red herring. The real truth is we're running out of landfill. THAT'S what started the whole recycling ball back in the early '70s. They ain't cuttin' sdown trees to make paper in the rainforest, they're cuttin 'em down to make room for corn, or to export cheap furniture.
Let me turn the table and ask you, do you want to pay for a cab to go to the post office even once a week, or depend on a relative to drive you?
My brother lives 40 miles away.
My aunt lives in another state.
And if I had kids, I still wouldn't want to burdern 'em in my old age.

Are they considerably more expensive? Yes. But you get what you pay for. It's not personal, I love my Postman, it's business.

So I should just go ahead and accept that I'm gonna pay more for service because I can't get a lower level for less money?
Also, direct mail cost surveys show they're still the best response rate generator.

 

[coastie99]

Out here in Newsyland, USPS is just the dog's dick !!

Least expensive, and timely enough. Lack of T&T info. is a minor pain but, I can live without it.

 

[adorshki]

There's that wunnerfull Newzy slang again! What's a..... oh.... never mind. :shock:

 

[CA-35]

OK

 

[coastie99]

There's that wunnerfull Newzy slang again! What's a..... oh.... never mind. :shock:

Actually, I got it a little wrong ........ lotsa stuff going on at Maison Coastie this Saturday morning !

Shoulda said " USPS is the dog's bollocks "

 

[adorshki]

There's that wunnerfull Newzy slang again! What's a..... oh.... never mind. :shock:

Actually, I got it a little wrong ........ lotsa stuff going on at Maison Coastie this Saturday orning !
Shoulda said " USPS is the dog's bollocks "

Somehow that just ain't got the same ring to it.... :?

 

[adorshki]

Steve, I guess I don't understand why the Federal government can't do what the company I work for has done.

It'd require agreeing on the text of a piece of legislation they could vote on... :wink:

... but I take responsiblity for the brunt of my financial security.

Do they still teach that in school?

There are things about these changes that I don't like, but the fact is that it keeps the company viable and my pension money is still there (what's left of it).......for now anyway. I didn't care for having to give something up which had been promised to me, but we did it, and we're still kicking, and the company I work for is doing well.

Same here

As far as the leaders of my company making a fortune....well the way I look at that is that they call the shots, I do what they tell me and they pay me......it's just the way it is.

Yep. My company's still privately owned, and I get a little tired of folks complaining about the owners making "too much money"... I'm thinkin', "Hey if it weren't for them you wouldn't even HAVE a job..it's THEIR money keepin this place afloat during the skinny season...if YOU were in charge we wouldn't even have a company..."
Price of freedom...sure there ain't no guarantees, but there ain't no limits either. Think your current bosses ain't payin' fairly? Nobody's got a manacle on ya. Of course, I've gotta admit, that's easy to say when you've got a bit of control over your income. But I'VE walked a couple of times.
I think we got a slight problem with some of the current crop comin' into adulthood thinkin' there ARE economic guarantees...nope. Just two: death and taxes.
And a few guaranteed rights
Don't see nothin' in there about guaranteed income... :wink:

 

[frailer5]

Out here in Newsyland, USPS is just the dog's dick !!

Least expensive, and timely enough. Lack of T&T info. is a minor pain but, I can live without it.

Agreed for here too. Safely delivered 2 GADs. Lack of T&T doesn't stop me looking, though, even though the likelihood of something different coming up is in Las Vegas probability region. :lol:

 

[adorshki]

Lack of T&T doesn't stop me looking, though, even though the likelihood of something different coming up is in Las Vegas probability region. :lol:

Is that somewhere near "area 51" ? :lol: