Type of Glue used on New Hartford D40 BG Jubilee

mario1956

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
460
Reaction score
13
Location
Chelsea, Alabama
I have recently purchased a 2009 D-40 BG Jubilee that has some loose top braces on it. I had heard that Guild used Hide Glue to attach the braces to the top.
Does anyone know if this is true?
If not did they just use Titebond or equivalent?
Thanks for any input!
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,798
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Mario what a great question! I've wondered about that myself.

I know Guild at least used Titebond for setting necks at some point in New Hartford, but don't remember if it was supposed to be model specific or general rule. I'm 99% certain it was referred to by our mod Chazmo in one of the "LMG" threads. "LMG"" is shorthand for "Let's Meet Guild" events hosted by Guild/Fender at New Hartford for a weekend. Think there were 3?, at least 2 for sure.

So Chaz referred to seeing Titebond being used for neck-setting,
and I thought it was a 12-string, but that may not make any difference.

The use of Titebond for neckset itself surprised me, as hide glue is a stronger bond, but only time will tell if it was "OK" in New Hartford.

I cannot recall if there was confirmation that hide glue was used for the rest of the construction. Now I realize I may have simply assumed it was, but that's been my "belief" since then. I believe the original posting date was sometime in '11 which may make a difference from '09, as well... think the LMG recap threads'll be in "Forum News Events FAQs" ;)

With respect my friend, I'm feeling a bit too lazy to do the thread searches myself right now, but you've got the keyword, at least.
And ideally Chaz'll post and clear things up soon, too. :geek:
 
Last edited:

twocorgis

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
14,043
Reaction score
6,673
Location
Lawn Guyland
Guild Total
18
I think that other than the Orpheum line, they used Tite-Bond on everything else. Another possible exception could be some of the GSR flattops. We were very lucky to have four LMGs, and it was an honor to be a part of all of them. Say what you want about Fender, but CMG doesn't show the least inclination of doing anything similar.
 

davismanLV

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
19,322
Reaction score
12,092
Location
U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
Guild Total
2
Hey @adorshki you might want to read this analysis of Titebond vs. Hide Glue. Seems they both have amazing bonding properties, but they work differently. Not one better or worse than the other, just different. Check out the information found HERE!!

So Hide Glue is not a STRONGER bond, just a different one. Depends.
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
3
Location
Westerly, RI
Guild Total
1
Hey @adorshki you might want to read this analysis of Titebond vs. Hide Glue. Seems they both have amazing bonding properties, but they work differently. Not one better or worse than the other, just different. Check out the information found HERE!!

So Hide Glue is not a STRONGER bond, just a different one. Depends.
cool article on glues!
 

wileypickett

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,988
Reaction score
4,546
Location
Cambridge, MA
On the three New Hartford factory tours that many of us here attended, Titebond 1 was ubiquitous at several work stations.

I saw no evidence of hide glue being used anywhere along the line.

Anyone who has worked with hide glue knows it has a distinctive odor. Besides not seeing it at NH, I didn’t smell it either.
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,476
Reaction score
8,997
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
Another possible exception could be some of the GSR flattops.
As far as I know the GSRs, 60th Anniversary, the American Patriarchs and also Ren's Custom Star models used Titebond only. Hideglue was only used on the Orpheums. Also the Fender Custom Shop models from New Hartford used Titebond:


Ralf
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,476
Reaction score
8,997
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
On the three New Hartford factory tours that many of us here attended, Titebond 1 was ubiquitous at several work stations.
Bill Ashton said: "In my several trips to New Hartford,...; the glue of choice there seems to be Tite Bond II. "

But I thought Titebond II is more yellow compared to what is shown in the NH factory videos. So my vote would have been Titebond I as well.

1618137877155.png


1618137775823.png

1618137726903.png


BUT:

Looking at a picture from the new Oxnard factory, the bottle is clearly Titebond II ! So the question is open again if NH used I or II...

1618138102254.png


Ralf
 
Last edited:

wileypickett

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,988
Reaction score
4,546
Location
Cambridge, MA
Whether it was I or II, the main point I was trying to make was that it was Titebond we saw being employed at New Hartford, not hide glue.

Possibly they used both, for different glue jobs?
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,798
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Hey @adorshki you might want to read this analysis of Titebond vs. Hide Glue. Seems they both have amazing bonding properties, but they work differently. Not one better or worse than the other, just different. Check out the information found HERE!!

So Hide Glue is not a STRONGER bond, just a different one. Depends.
Hmmm> I think this paragraph from that article is pretty good endorsement of one reason to stick with hide glue:

"What that means is that one can take a hide glue joint apart (if one knows how, and if one is willing to be patient) without removing of any actual wood. One cannot take a Titebonded joint apart without losing at least a little bit of the original wood: one undoes the joint and then needs to do some sanding or scraping to expose fresh wood. This might not seem like an important consideration in most woodworking, and it is pretty much irrelevant in factory-made guitars: there’s enough wood in these so that you can lose 1/64″ of thickness and still be all right. But in craftsman-level guitar work, which can allow for more carefully titrated and thicknessed parts, the loss of a few thousandths of an inch of wood may make a difference in sound.

But, what I meant by "stronger" is that hide glue absolutely has the best creep resistance of any glue suitable for building guitars, ie it resists stretching under tension better than any other glue.

That's why I consider it a better glue for neck sets: under the constant stress of string tension trying to pull the dovetail from its socket, hide glue performs better. It has virtually zero creep at normal temps and humidities recommended for guitars, according to this chart found on Frets.com:

Frank Ford prefers hide glue and that's good enough for me. ;)
 
Last edited:

F312

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
958
Why the snark?

I'd think those points'd be pretty relevant in the context of the OP.
Hmmm> I think this paragraph from that article is pretty good endorsement of one reason to stick with hide glue:

"What that means is that one can take a hide glue joint apart (if one knows how, and if one is willing to be patient) without removing of any actual wood. One cannot take a Titebonded joint apart without losing at least a little bit of the original wood: one undoes the joint and then needs to do some sanding or scraping to expose fresh wood. This might not seem like an important consideration in most woodworking, and it is pretty much irrelevant in factory-made guitars: there’s enough wood in these so that you can lose 1/64″ of thickness and still be all right. But in craftsman-level guitar work, which can allow for more carefully titrated and thicknessed parts, the loss of a few thousandths of an inch of wood may make a difference in sound.

But, what I meant by "stronger" is that hide glue absolutely has the best creep resistance of any glue suitable for building guitars, ie it resists stretching under tension better than any other glue.

That's why I consider it a better glue for neck sets: under the constant stress of string tension trying to pull the dovetail from its socket, hide glue performs better. It has virtually zero creep at normal temps and humidities recommended for guitars, according to this chart found on Frets.com:

Frank Ford prefers hide glue and that's good enough for me. ;)

Does hide glue fit in your pipe dream? 😞

Ralph
 

Rambozo96

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2020
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
1,192
Location
Texas
Guild Total
5
Isn’t New Hartford still in operation? I don’t know if any of the workforce that was there when they made Guild’s there but it probably wouldn’t be too bad of a task to track an ex/current New Hartford employee and see if they remember. I had no idea glue types was a thing that could be discussed in such detail. All I knew was that some Japanese makers used epoxy which made a neck reset in the traditional sense improbable.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,798
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Isn’t New Hartford still in operation? I don’t know if any of the workforce that was there when they made Guild’s there but it probably wouldn’t be too bad of a task to track an ex/current New Hartford employee and see if they remember. I had no idea glue types was a thing that could be discussed in such detail. All I knew was that some Japanese makers used epoxy which made a neck reset in the traditional sense improbable.
Unless something's changed, looks like it was closed in '18:

But I'm satisfied with the comments about it never being sighted (or smelled, as Wileypickett mentioned in post #6) by any of the members who attended the LMG events.

I even started wondering if it might have been used in Tacoma, since so much other innovation occurred there.
 
Top