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richardp69

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I don't worry about the "why" part of it so much any more. There are a lot of really good brands/models out there, I just happen to choose Guild. So, I just buy 'em and play 'em.
 

Grassdog

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Once you get into the realm of Martin, Gibson, Guild, Taylor, etc. they're all fine guitars. And then you get into the boutique brands or custom builders and they can claim they're on another level. I just think it's pointless to claim one is better than another because at the end of the day it's completely subjective. Time is better spent developing one's chops IMHO because I can guaranty you technique/skill trumps whatever brand/model you're playing.
 

adorshki

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Actually, knowing there are a lot of 12 string D-25's out there, I've been wondering if the 6 string and 12 string versions are the same on the inside, and that maybe the 6 strings are heavier than average because they're braced the same as a 12 string for the extra tension? Just wondering.
Highly doubt it if for no other reason than that it would put a lot of extra cost in guitars that don't really need it, let alone the potential impact on tone. (A top braced to withstand 12-string tension probably wouldn't get sufficient energy from 6 strings to resonate properly)
I think your '91 is just an example of the tail end of the built-like-a-tank era in Westerly, because my '96 was (still is) the lightest guitar I ever owned when I got it, and contrary to some mistaken perceptions, the laminated back would actually be lighter than a solid back of equal thickness if for no other reason than that there's no bracing.
We've seen what appears to be 12-string bracing on F30 tops from the early-to-mid '70's but those appear to be exceptions, and not a "norm".
Maybe you saw those posts and wondered if it could apply to D25's?
Hans would be the ultimate source for accurate answer, though.
 

adorshki

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Same question about Jumbo
Highly doubt it for reasons listed above (insufficient string tension).
But again, best place to really start is to ask Hans:

It wouldn't surprise me if there is no actual record (or at least in the records he has on hand) of this taking place as a standard production method, so he may not even know except from his own contact with owners and instruments.
 

adorshki

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Once you get into the realm of Martin, Gibson, Guild, Taylor, etc. they're all fine guitars. And then you get into the boutique brands or custom builders and they can claim they're on another level. I just think it's pointless to claim one is better than another because at the end of the day it's completely subjective. Time is better spent developing one's chops IMHO because I can guaranty you technique/skill trumps whatever brand/model you're playing.
100% agreement. The Indian is always more important than the arrow (or the bow).
After that it's a matter of what kind of bows and arrows the Indian likes best based on his own unique individual preferences.
A while back I realized we don't even all hear the same, so why should we expect any one guitar/brand to be "the best" for everybody?
I was playing my Guild D 35 yesterday, I have a Martin D 35 too, And for certain things, it works better than my other dreads. Certain my bang for buck champion. Is there a better acoustic guitar value than an old D 25?
Apologies for picking nits, but was that a typo for "D35" since that's the Guild model you restored a while back?
I'd actually be inclined to agree with you about the D35 these days since my own D40 has blossomed so much over the past coupl of years, and I finally get why so many favor the flatback (D35/D40) sound over the archback (D25) sound.
Ten years ago my D25 would have won the "forced choice" contest easily.
Nowadays I hop I don't ever have to make such a choice.
And the D40 absolutely records the best of all 3, I think it has to be due to the flat back.
 
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adorshki

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I was playing my Guild D 35 yesterday, I have a Martin D 35 too, And for certain things, it works better than my other dreads. Certain my bang for buck champion. Is there a better acoustic guitar value than an old D 25?
Apologies for picking nits, but was that a typo for "D35" since that's the Guild model you restored a while back?
I'd actually be inclined to agree with you about the D35 these days since my own D40 has blossomed so much over the past couple of years, and I finally get why so many favor the flatback (D35/D40) sound over the archback (D25) sound.
Ten years ago my D25 would have won the "forced choice" contest easily.
Nowadays I hope I don't ever have to make such a choice.
And the D40 absolutely records the best of all 3, I think it has to be due to the flat back.
 

bobouz

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If there’s one thing I’ve learned over the years, it’s to never put too much stock in brand or guitar “truths” & to approach them as the generalizations that they actually are - to be filed away as reference info, but not to be relied upon.

The only real truth in the guitar world is that every piece is unique & will have it’s own individual characteristics. Your playing style & what your ears hear, as opposed to anyone else’s, are the assessment tools that matter.

That said, the other key factor is exposure to a very broad range of instruments. This is critical in order to know what a particular model design is capable of, and to have some sense of what it’s ideal signature sound might be. And that takes time.
 

walrus

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Time is better spent developing one's chops IMHO because I can guaranty you technique/skill trumps whatever brand/model you're playing.
Agreed. In high school a friend came over and picked my Sears electric and played it unplugged wonderfully. Made me have to decide to either just stop playing, or start practicing much more. Luckily I chose the latter. And soon after I bought a Yamaha acoustic, which may not have improved my playing but (if only for the action height) did improve my ability to play.

walrus
 

Br1ck

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Apologies for picking nits, but was that a typo for "D35" since that's the Guild model you restored a while back?
I'd actually be inclined to agree with you about the D35 these days since my own D40 has blossomed so much over the past couple of years, and I finally get why so many favor the flatback (D35/D40) sound over the archback (D25) sound.
Ten years ago my D25 would have won the "forced choice" contest easily.
Nowadays I hope I don't ever have to make such a choice.
And the D40 absolutely records the best of all 3, I think it has to be due to the flat back.
No, I meant D 25, even though I've never owned one. If someone were to ask me, that's the guitar I'd tell them to look for on a restricted budget. I'd love to have a 70 D 25 to go with my 70 D 35. I took my D 35 out in the sun yesterday to clean some of the grunge off of it. I'm always amazed the top wood made it onto a natural top guitar. For 1970, it would have been quite a low grade top based on the amount of imperfection (bear claw) in the wood. Today, you'd pay more for that.

I could use a 70 D 55 too.
 

Zelja

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(A top braced to withstand 12-string tension probably wouldn't get sufficient energy from 6 strings to resonate properly)
You know Al, I'm not sure about the science & theory of it all, but I have been playing my JF30-12 as a 6 string for a while & she sounds great! Volume is not much down on my super lightly built Orpheum Jumbo & 12 Fret dread. Greater volume, I believe, than my D25 & D50. The JF30-12 is a tank & would be my weapon of choice should an intruder come in to the house & no electrics were to hand.
 

Br1ck

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Weight is not the overriding determination of tone, just one factor. I myself am a fan of mid sixties D 18s. I'd venture better than 80% would much rather have a new one. It's such a subjective judgement. If you happen to have a heavier guitar and like it, pay no attention to anything said here or anywhere. Just enjoy your guitar. The fact it will last longer before major work is a bonus. So is having two fine Guilds for the price of one something else.

I may never own a D 18, and a big part of that is owning my D 35s, one from both Martin and Guild. Yeah, life is tough. I have friends that indulge themselves with some really fine guitars, but how much my life would be enriched if I could, I just don't know. When I bought that early 90s Martin 000 16 in 93, I crossed the threshold of need into the world of want, and when I bought my M 36, I never have left a guitar shop with that horrible feeling of being deprived. As long as I have something of the order of my Guild D 35, I can be content. All the rest is just glorious frivolity.

I've gone through the same process with mandolins, but learned from my guitar experience. You just need a certain level to get most of what you are ever going to get. That is a plain A style used for around $1200. Double that for an F style. Not wanting to spend $5k for the cheapest Collings or Gibson, I built one. It's cosmetically challenged but I'd have to spend $6k to do better. The good stuff is around $12K and goes to $25K, but at that price I'd be scared to use it.
 
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Rich Cohen

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Interesting , I never thought of Guild as a underdog . I am king of cheap . My Blueridge 180A is a Martin killer ( they use that term with cell phones called flagship killers do why not with guitars ) Lol

I Will admit you guys have Nerd'd me out about Guilds and I think they are amazing when you find the right one/ones . Lol

Guild will always be in my heart so I guess I need to buy more of them . Lol
Thank you for giving me permission Ray.
 

mario1956

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I owned a 1970 BRW D-50 for several years. To me it was much better sounding than any other guitar of the same vintage and construction except my Mossman.
I had to sell it unfortunately just a short time ago. I also paid about 1/5 the price of a similar aged D-28 and it sounded better.
 

Br1ck

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The only MIJ dreadnaught I ever played I thought could give any good Martin a run for it's money was a 70s Alverez /Yairi. Wow, that was a nice one.
 

chazmo

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Right on, Br1ck... The real high-end Japanese stuff during the late '70s was definitely (IMO) on a par with the best US stuff. However, some of their cheaper stuff was just junk (again, IMO). I'm a huge fan, for example, of the late-70s first generation Ibanez Artwood guitars.
 

crank

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I had a pretty good cheap Yamaha in the 70's. Also an American built Kalamazoo by Gibson. Anyone remember Kalamazoo guitars.
 
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