Thunder 1 schematic

sfIII

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I just picked up one of these small tube amps and it arrived with the tubes removed and no indication as to which socket the tubes go. Nice looking amp.. but I can't or won't turn it on until I know I have the tubes in the right places.

Anyone have a schematic or can tell me what tube goes where? :?:

TIA
 

sfIII

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I just picked up one of these small tube amps and it arrived with the tubes removed and no indication as to which socket the tubes go. Nice looking amp.. but I can't or won't turn it on until I know I have the tubes in the right places.

Anyone have a schematic or can tell me what tube goes where? :?:

TIA
 

matsickma

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Hi Guys,

Guild amps usually have a tube layout made out of foil attached to each amp housing. If you look at the back of the amp it should be there. If it isn't there some one pulled it off. They are usually bonded pretty well and rarely come off.

The Thunder 1 amp series has the following tube arrangement: Standing behind the amp with the baffel board removed you should see the power transformer on your left side. starting from your left side and progressing to the right the tubes are arranged as follows:

6CA4 (rectifier)
6GW8 (power)
6GW8 (power)
7025/12AX7(preamp, tremelo)
7025/12AX7(preamp).

If you have a Thunder 1 with reverb the tube arrangement is the same but on the far right are two more tubes for the reverb. These two tubes are lined up with each other. The tube closest to the front of the amp is a 7025/12AX7 (reverb preamp) and the tube closest to the back of the amp is a 6GW8 (reverb power). Note that the additional reverb amp comes in two arrangements. One configuration has the circuitry build inside the Thunder 1 housing. The other configuration has an external circuit card mounted with stand-offs to the main housing. The tube arrangement is the same but the style with the external circuit card looks kind of unusual.

Hope that works for you,

M
 

matsickma

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Hi Guys,

Guild amps usually have a tube layout made out of foil attached to each amp housing. If you look at the back of the amp it should be there. If it isn't there some one pulled it off. They are usually bonded pretty well and rarely come off.

The Thunder 1 amp series has the following tube arrangement: Standing behind the amp with the baffel board removed you should see the power transformer on your left side. starting from your left side and progressing to the right the tubes are arranged as follows:

6CA4 (rectifier)
6GW8 (power)
6GW8 (power)
7025/12AX7(preamp, tremelo)
7025/12AX7(preamp).

If you have a Thunder 1 with reverb the tube arrangement is the same but on the far right are two more tubes for the reverb. These two tubes are lined up with each other. The tube closest to the front of the amp is a 7025/12AX7 (reverb preamp) and the tube closest to the back of the amp is a 6GW8 (reverb power). Note that the additional reverb amp comes in two arrangements. One configuration has the circuitry build inside the Thunder 1 housing. The other configuration has an external circuit card mounted with stand-offs to the main housing. The tube arrangement is the same but the style with the external circuit card looks kind of unusual.

Hope that works for you,

M
 

matsickma

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Hi John,

Thanks for the cudo's but there are a lot of Thunder 1 amp owners out there that could help.

By the way...I see you listing your T1 as a 1962 model. It is unlikely the T1 is a 1962 model. Based on all the info I can find I don't think Guild began to sell Thunder 1 amps until late 1964.

This little amp series may have been Guild best selling guitar amp. Based on the number that show up for sale there must have been many thousands made.

My very first serious amp was a black Thunder 1 RVT (reverb & tremelo) model I bought second hand the summer of 1967 or 68. It is kind of amazing that when I got the amp it was pretty beat up and was only a few years old. The T1 amp is a cool little amp. I find that this amp sounds best when driving a 15 inch Jensen speaker. The stock 12 inch Oxford speaker doesn't bring out the best in the T1. It is best to swap in a 12 inch Jensen. I picked up a Guild T1 Twin "baby bass" cabinet years back and have since installed a 15 inch speaker in that cab. (Note: The T1- Twin uses a cabinet the size of the T1 RVT and so is large enough to pack in a 15 inch speaker. I think one is on ebay now. The "baby bass" has 2-10 inch speakers. It is a much better guitar amp than a bass amp.)

Speaking of the T1 RVT...the T1 RVT is in a league of its own. It sounds great at ALL volume levels. The speaker driven reverb design is very rich. This amp is great to use in a small room. The reverb only comes out of a 8 inch speaker channel. When sitting in front of the amp it creates a stereo like sound. It is really cool to hear the clean speaker become quiet and continue to hear the reverb speaker decaying out after a staccato like note or chord.

The T1 RVT isn't for every playing condition. However it is one of the most unique sounding tubes amps I ever heard and should be a part of all tube amp collection. Guild is not noted for its amps so most people are unaware of how great sounding these amps are. I am sure that had I not had a T1 RVT as a kid I would be skeptical that the T1 RVT was anything special.

M
 

john_kidder

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Matsickma:

More great stuff. There may be others out there with the same info (although I doubt it), but few are so willing to take the time to share it.

Thanks again.
 

matsickma

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Hi Guys,

I am re-posting the info on Thunder amps that was I posted under SFIII's Superstar discussion which raised a few questions about the Guild Thunderbird and Thunder amps. It will make the info on the Thunder amps easier to find in the future.

A few comments...


The Thunder 1 and Thunder 1 RVT are similar but not identical less the speaker driven reverb circuit. A good tech should be able to use the T1 RVT schematic to repair a T1 especially the power section.

The differences between the T1 and T1 RVT beyond the Reverb circuit is the following:

Inputs: The T1 has two inputs: Normal & High Gain, The T1 RVT has three inputs: Mic, Normal and Bright.

Tremelo: The T1 has a Tremelo ON/OFF switch on the front panel; The T1 RVT uses a hardwired foot switch to turn the Tremelo On/OFF. Both the T1 and T1 RVT have a Tremelo speed control. The T1 has a small POT burried back inside the amp housing where you can adjust the Tremelo strength; the T1 RVT has a Tremelo Strength control on the front of the amp next to the Speed control.

Layout: The T1 Tremelo controls are near the Inputs; The T1 RVT has the Tremelo controls near the Volume/Pull For Bright control.

I used to have a T1 schematic and will see if I can track it down. Believe it or not I sent a snail mail letter to Fender a few years back and I got a nice email reply stating they did not have a lot of info on Guild amps but they had a few schematics and they emailed them to me. Unfortunately I never backed up my files and lost them when I had a harddrive failure.


The amp capnjuan described is a Thunder amp and not a Thunderbird amp. Very different amps although the early Thunderbird amp did use the same reverb circuit as the Thunder 1 RVT. Additionally the way you described your amp it sounds like one of the early models (There were 3 different cosmetic styles of Thunder amps between 1965 and 1969. They also have a few subtle alterations to the cabinet & chassie. The most notable is the later amps had a power polarity switch.)

The grill style of your amp is often refered to as the "fish scale" grill cloth. The color of the grill cloth when new was actually a bright silver. With exposure these grill cloths eventually turn yellowish. I have owed a few T1 amps that came with the origional cover and were cosmetically like new. I couldn't believe the stark silver grill cloth cover of a closet kept amp!

The Thunder 1 amp is a great little amp. However if your amp is really beat up and it is going to cost a mint to fix it I would recommend you pick up another one and sell yours for parts. The T1 RVT's pop up on ebay pretty often. The usually range between $300-$400. Keep yours for parts and when your satisfied you got one working then sell it to some who is looking for parts. Often the reverb tanks get one or more springs broken.

Additionally, I saw your earlier post and you correctly listed the proper Reverb power tube as a 6BM8/ECL82. I was incorrect in my tube list in stating the Reverb power tube was a 6GW8. My mistake!! I hope I didn't cause a problem for anyone.

With regards to 6GW8 availability...I have not had any problems finding these tubes on ebay. They may not be made anymore but their are still readily available.

The T1 and T1 RVT are great little amps. However they are not for everyone. My preference is the T1 RVT model. The Reverb makes quite a postitive difference on this amp. Many people find the amp to be too clean sounding. This is true at low levels. However there is a time when that is the tone I am looking for. When you crank up the T1 amp, with a lot of treble, it breaks up with a much more agressive tone than EL84's or 6V6's. It's a uniques sound to the Thunder amps. I always recommend that better tone out of Guild Thunder series amp is achieved with a speaker swap. The stock Oxfords don't do the amp justice.

Finally, the Thunder amps can be very bright and have a strong mid tone. However they are a bit muddy sounding at the lower frequencies- especially when cranked up. I tried to clean this lowend tone up with various speaker substitutions but I could never tighten up the low end tone. It seems to be intrinsic to the amp. However, this low end tone issue is not a major detractor.

The Thunder amp is best used in a small room or studio. A few years back I was talking with Jay Pilzer about Guild amps (I bought a Guild Reverb Converter off of him.) He told me his son took a Thunder 1 RVT to a studio in the Nashville area and when the amp was heard by various guitar players they were really impressed. There seemed to be a lot of interest in owning this model.

Thanks,
matsickma
 

matsickma

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Hi capnjuan,

I think you will be very please with the reverb and tremelo tone. Everyone who have ever heard my T1 RVT remarked on the tone and some were owners of boutique grade amps.

I am curious of the Accutronics model that was selected by your tech. Can you post the model number? These come with all different Input and Output impedance transformers. The wrong one, can as a minimum, result in a very tin or ringing sound to the reverb (not good) and on the worst case can smoke the reverb amp. (I learned that by experiance!!!)


matsickma
 

matsickma

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Hi capnjuam,

I forgot to ask about your Tech. I have a Guild Thunderstar and Superstar amp that can use some work. Can you send me an email on how I can contact your Tech?

Thanks,

m
 
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