Swietenia mahagoni

merlin6666

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I really like ukuleles and recently had the opportunity to play some very old (around 1920 and 30s) plain Martin ukuleles, which were produced in very large numbers around that time. They consistently sounded great, much better than any high end modern uke that would sell at four or five times the price of these old Martins. I don't really know why they have such a superior sound, but wonder if it might be because they used Swietenia mahagoni (Cuban mahogany). I think that after WWII this was less commonly used and gradually replaced by Swietenia macrophylla (Honduran mahogany) which does not have those tonal properties. Does anyone know if there were ever any acoustic Guilds produced that had Swietenia mahagoni bodies or tops?
 

Walter Broes

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I think it probably has a lot to do with the fact that Martin was at their peak around that time, they were building some incredible instruments - and Martin Ukes are typically very light builds with fairly thin tops and backs. Also, I think most people agree that if a wooden stringed instrument ages well (as in "doesn't develop structural problems and is treated right"), the aging process tends to sweeten the sound of them.
 

adorshki

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I think it probably has a lot to do with the fact that Martin was at their peak around that time, they were building some incredible instruments - and Martin Ukes are typically very light builds with fairly thin tops and backs. Also, I think most people agree that if a wooden stringed instrument ages well (as in "doesn't develop structural problems and is treated right"), the aging process tends to sweeten the sound of them.

Merlin's right about the use of Cuban falling off after WWII, but I suspect you're probably right about build being more important than wood type here, because Honduran's supposed to be pretty identical to Cuban and has identical density.
There might be a difference between genuine old growth and farmed wood, acoustically, though.
 

gjmalcyon

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I don't really know why they have such a superior sound, but wonder if it might be because they used Swietenia mahagoni (Cuban mahogany).

That query sent me down an interwebs rabbit hole, since I've been wondering why the wife's '51 Martin O-15 sounds so extraordinary for a little parlor guitar. Some thin and speculative reasoning on some other forums suggests that Cuban Mahogany was not available in sufficient quantities for Martin guitars, so there must be other factors at work with her guitar. But that would explain why the ukes might sound like they do.

Luthiers (and their well-heeled customers) hold Cuban Mahogany in very high regard, characterizing it as a combination of the best qualities for rosewood AND mahogany.

And here I was, all happy (and ignorant) with my three-tonewood collection. Now there's a fourth, and an expensive one at that.
 

dreadnut

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Thanks for posting that, Tom!

Chatoyancy is what I saw when I bought my old D-25M.

My daughter's birdseye maple mandolin has chatoyancy as well, as you rotate it you can see depth in the figuring.

HmttKzs.jpg


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adorshki

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Luthiers (and their well-heeled customers) hold Cuban Mahogany in very high regard, characterizing it as a combination of the best qualities for rosewood AND mahogany.

And here I was, all happy (and ignorant) with my three-tonewood collection. Now there's a fourth, and an expensive one at that.
I'll defer to your greater depth of research and try to remember that, thanks!
For the original question about whether Guild ever used it though, I suspect not for that twice cited reason of scarcity since before they were even founded.
Like Adironack.
 

merlin6666

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I'll defer to your greater depth of research and try to remember that, thanks!
For the original question about whether Guild ever used it though, I suspect not for that twice cited reason of scarcity since before they were even founded.
Like Adironack.

That's what I figured, but I thought I ask anyway, and also potentially interesting discussion topic given the large number of "mahogany" types that are used nowadays. It seems that the new U.S. built Guilds are now all officially "African mahogany" (i.e. khaya) though I have read that supply of Honduran has already ended in the early 2000s. As Guild has never specified what kind of mahogany was used we can only guess even for NH models. Sometimes the stripes in the African types are obvious, but not always, and I have no idea how to tell otherwise.
 

adorshki

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That's what I figured, but I thought I ask anyway, and also potentially interesting discussion topic given the large number of "mahogany" types that are used nowadays. It seems that the new U.S. built Guilds are now all officially "African mahogany" (i.e. khaya)
No, some are spec'd as "genuine" and some as "African", but I'm too lazy to go refresh right now.
I think the D40's gave rise to that confusion: it's coming back to me, even though the website says African, somebody got a confirmation from Guild that at least one of 'm (the "Traditional", I think) was in fact "genuine".
Assuming THAT info was correct...

though I have read that supply of Honduran has already ended in the early 2000s.
I never heard it "ended" but it definitely got scarcer, possibly due to CITES listing in NOV. '95 (App II, documentation required)
As Guild has never specified what kind of mahogany was used we can only guess even for NH models. Sometimes the stripes in the African types are obvious, but not always, and I have no idea how to tell otherwise.
We did get a report from one of the LMG's that NH was in fact already investigating potential alternatives due to concerns about future CITES status but the distinct impression I got was that it wasn't incorporated into production yet.
And since that stripey/flame is considered very desirable I suspect it'll be easy to spot going forward.
While the supply lasts.
With all due ironic intent and biting my tongue besides......
 

fronobulax

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As Guild has never specified what kind of mahogany was used

My recollection is that was deliberate on Guild's part. If they are specific about wood genus and species then they have to have a ready supply of that particularity wood. If they run out they have to change the spec, confirm that the new spec is acceptable to buyers who have ordered, cancel and process refunds if not, and then hope they don't make a mistake and get sued for false representation. The vagueness helps them have better logistics.
 

adorshki

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My recollection is that was deliberate on Guild's part. If they are specific about wood genus and species then they have to have a ready supply of that particularity wood. If they run out they have to change the spec, confirm that the new spec is acceptable to buyers who have ordered, cancel and process refunds if not, and then hope they don't make a mistake and get sued for false representation. The vagueness helps them have better logistics.

Yep there was that too but for once you used more words than I did when I avoided that element of it..
:biggrin-new:
 
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