String gauges and hand strength/tuning stability issues. What's your experience?

[lungimsam]

Over the last 15 years or so I have noticed my left hand liking lighter and lighter gauge bass strings. Been getting uncomfortable to play even 40-100. Now I am down to 40-95. I guess as I age (54 this year) I am losing hand strength or something.

But I notice that with the 40-95 sets I am experiencing stability issues both in staying in tune and intonation, rattles. Like the strings aren't as stable as the 40-100 and higher gauges.
Anyone experienced this with their 40-95 sets (if anyone plays anything as light here at all)? I have used chromes and Ernie Ball cobalt flats and their Group flats. I used to use really heavy chromes and LaBellas years ago. But the left hand can't take it anymore.

Neck is straight (0.30mm relief) and action reasonable (2/32-3/32 at 12th fret) so its not because the action is too high or anything. Nut height good. So I don't think that is affecting my hand issues or string instability.

Maybe I just need some hand grips to get the muscle tone back.

 

[mellowgerman]

I'm assuming you have tried TI Flatwounds and/or Labella Low Tension Flats? The TI's at least, as you likely know, are much lighter tension and floppier than other strings of the same gauge, due to their construction. I was never a big fan of them on bass -- won't put anything else on my Rickenbacker 330 guitar though!

Regarding Labella Low Tension Flats; I have never tried them myself and I know the gauges are pretty light as well, but I figured they were worth mentioning, since you said you liked Labella (presumably their standard "deep talkin" flats). Also not sure what scale lengths they come in or how well a long scale set would take to being put on a short or medium scale bass.

I've never found a string that I liked with an E lighter than 100 (especially on a short scale bass), so I haven't done much recent exploration of anything lighter. My main aversion to light gauges is kind of what you're hinting at, with the inherent rattle/buzz that can occur due to the wider movement of vibration on lower tension strings. I like to be able to go from playing with a soft touch, to really digging in... but those light tension options don't do digging-in very well, without setting the action quite high. I have gotten away from full-on high tension strings, but find myself very happy with the happy medium of medium tension

 

[Westerly Wood]

Well, I own a bass but that tangent did not last long lol.
But the older I get, the more I like custom light gauge strings on the acoustics. .11-.52. It might not sound like light, but after playing regular lights and mediums for decades, it's light

 

[lungimsam]

Thanks mellow and Westerly,
I can't imagine anything lighter tension working on my Starfire bass. TI's go down into 130 lbs territory so I think even more rattling/instability will occur. Though others here use TI's with great reviews. All the 40-95 flat wound sets I use are in the 148-163 lbs tension set range. If I need to add too much relief for rattle clearance, then below the 5th fret, notes get pulled sharp when playing on the low a and e strings (even though nut height is good). Maybe others can chime in with their TI flats setup experience.

LaBella won't tell me the tension pounds for their low tension set. But their medium scale low tension set is 34 1/4" from ball end to silks so they would fit on the Starfire perfectly so maybe they will be the next set I try.

Admittedly, all the 40-95s I am using are all long scale sets because the tension feels better and they sound better than the short scale sets I have tried. No prob with the low E being 3/4 bare string wrap around tuning post so far.

 

[mavuser]

try the shortscale TI Flats on that starfire bass.

 

[mellowgerman]

Admittedly, all the 40-95s I am using are all long scale sets because the tension feels better and they sound better than the short scale sets I have tried. No prob with the low E being 3/4 bare string wrap around tuning post so far.

Yeah, some brands will be more resilient than others in this situation. I never had issues with long-scale DA Chromes or Fender Flats on my Starfires (same goes for tapewounds from both brands too). Even after stripping a layer of the actual flat-steel winding to get them through the tuning post hole, no issues. With other strings however, Labella Deep Talkin always come to mind, they will usually break if anything but silk goes around the post (they even give a corresponding warning on the packaging).

 

[fronobulax]

Are you self taught? I found my left hand technique was so bad that when someone worked with me to clean it up, a lot of pain, rattles and buzzes just went away.

notes get pulled sharp when playing

is a problem that went away for me when I was taught to fret "differently". In my case the fretting finger was actually causing the problem by sliding.

 

[lungimsam]

Are you self taught? I found my left hand technique was so bad that when someone worked with me to clean it up, a lot of pain, rattles and buzzes just went away.



is a problem that went away for me when I was taught to fret "differently". In my case the fretting finger was actually causing the problem by sliding.

Yes, except for Carol Kaye books and emails about left hand technique, which helped solve a left hand pinky issue I was having way back. I started pivoting on the thumb the way she describes and keeping my fingers together, supporting the pinky with the others. Just my hand gets tired from pushing on 100s or 105's. I would not dare to do 110s.
I will have to ask around some bassists I know to check out my technique.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

At 73, I have bad arthritis in both my thumbs. Slapping is painful to them, so I don't do it. I play short-scales exclusively, all strung with ECB81M Chromes 45-65-80-100 (which are relatively high tension, but I like to feel some "push back"). A 1.50"-wide nut with 17mm spacing at the bridge (basically, a Starfire) is what feels most comfortable to me and causes me the least discomfort. I only have one bass (a Reverend Dub King) that has a wider nut and wider string spacing than that at the bridge.

What helped me most is when I started playing with a bunch more amp volume and a lighter, right-hand touch. Requires a bit more finesse and muting to avoid unintended, extraneous noises, but that requires progressively less, focused attention with conscious practice.

 

[Happy Face]

There are TI Jazz Flats specially made for Hofners. The only difference is the E string at 95 rather than 105. I actually seek those out.

 

[lungimsam]

I wonder if using long scale strings on a short scale like the Starfire (medium scale actually as in ball end to silk length) could be negatively effecting things related to rattle and intonation/tuning instability.

 

[fronobulax]

I wonder if using long scale strings on a short scale like the Starfire (medium scale actually as in ball end to silk length) could be negatively effecting things related to rattle and intonation/tuning instability.

I would never do that again but my experience had more to do with the string becoming unwound.

But since I can always come up with something that is possible but not necessarily probably, I would wonder about how things are wound on the tuning peg? I have had uneven winds (because I was lazy) that would not stay in tune because the outer layer sometimes gripped the peg and sometimes another part of the string, which would sometimes move unexpectedly.

A right way to wind strings is to make it so that each "wind" is lower than the previous one and the last wind, before the string heads for the nut, is on the peg shaft and not on a previous wind. From personal experience failure to do so can lead to tuning instability. Longer strings than necessary could make the winding "less right".

 

[mellowgerman]

I wonder if using long scale strings on a short scale like the Starfire (medium scale actually as in ball end to silk length) could be negatively effecting things related to rattle and intonation/tuning instability.

It certainly could. I've had defective flatwound strings where the outer winding had loosened along the speaking length of the string and I could actually accordion it back and forth just by touching the string and sliding my finger along it (if that makes sense). So it could be a defective string or having the outer winding go around the tuning peg could have somehow dislodged that winding.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

A right way to wind strings is to make it so that each "wind" is lower than the previous one and the last wind, before the string heads for the nut, is on the peg shaft and not on a previous wind.

This facilitates good "break angle" coming off the nut.

 

[lungimsam]

I wind straight down as described for break angle and never overlap.
Those are good points for people to know for tuning stability.

 

[RVBASS]

I used to use Pyramid Gold flats on all my basses, sound fantastic but crazy high tension. I switched over to Labella Low Tension Flats on all of my long scale basses and love them. They sound very similar to Pyramids (maybe slightly brighter), the polish feels great, and they are lower tension but not floppy like TIs, I really like them. I just ordered a short scale set for my Starfire to see how they work on that bass.

 

[lungimsam]

According to LaBellas info on the low tension flats, the medium scale has the ball end to silk measurement that fits the Starfire Bisonic bass. Not sure about the string length needed for the Starfire Pbass pickup-type bass. I'm thinking of trying these strings next on my Basses.
Medium Scale Set: 34 1/4" wound length from ball-end to silk.
Short Scale Set: 32 1/4" wound length from ball-end to silk.

Tension for the long scale set is posted on their site as:

• Total Tension in Lbs: 134.90 (1st 36.2, 2nd 34, 3rd 30.5, 4th 34.2)

They would not tell me the tension of the medium scale set when I emailed them to ask.
If they are not as floppy as TI's, though the tension is similar then that is good to know!!

 

[RVBASS]

Thanks for the heads up on length, I just emailed to revise my order to medium scale to fit my Starfire.

I’m not sure about the actual tension of the LTFs. They feel a little higher tension than TIs since they are not floppy like TIs, but they are much lower tension than Pyramids. I like them, I find them to have a tension that is not floppy, but high enough to feel solid and low enough to easily flex, bend or tremolo with your finger.

This is my experience with long scale sets of Labella low tension flats.

 

[lungimsam]

Measure your bass to be sure. But the 34 1/4" fits on my Starfire with the silks behind the nut. The short scales would have the silks laying over the fingerboard.
Where did you get them from? I only see them available on LaBella site. Their recommended sellers are sold out. LaBella charges 45$ and 7.95 shipping to me. Was wondering if someone has them at a better price.

 

[RVBASS]

I ordered the medium scales from Labella, looks like someone on reverb is selling them too. Otherwise I did not see anyone else selling the medium scales. Both are selling them for around $45. Labella charged me around $9 for shipping. I’m used to paying Pyramid or TI prices that are substantially higher, so I’m OK with $45 for flatwound bass strings that I like and will likely last awhile.