Starfire tinkering continued

gilded

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In 1974, I saw a bass-player in NYC pull up to a rehearsal at a closed restaurant in the Village and proceed to pull a 3/4 scale bass out of the interior of his VW Bug! Just as importantly, when the rehearsal was over, the same bassist put the same bass back into the same Volkswagen and apparently drove it all home!
 

lungimsam

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Wherever I play it is DI to board and I still want a pickup truck for my next motor vehicle!!
 

RVBASS

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Mellowgerman, I just listened to your video at the beginning of this thread, your bass sounds fantastic!
 

jcwu

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He's the guy knocking at the end of the video.
This recording's audio is not ideal

Hey, listen, I forgot you mentioned the knock, and I'm listening on my headphones, and at the end of the video I was about to take off my headphones to go answer the door. :p

That is some really nice bass tone. Wish there were basses that sounded like that off the rack without so much tweaking!
 

mellowgerman

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That is some really nice bass tone. Wish there were basses that sounded like that off the rack without so much tweaking!

Thanks! Yeah I'm quite smitten with the tone this preamp opens up (not that it was a bad tone before!) Of course the strings and pickups are just as important.
Indeed, would be fantastic if there was a stock bass a-la Casady/Lesh tone
 

lungimsam

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Wow! My NS Starfire sounds nothing like vintage Starfires at all.
 

fronobulax

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Wow! My NS Starfire sounds nothing like vintage Starfires at all.

Some of us have been trying to say that for years :)

That said, I don't think my unmodified '67 and mellow's sound that close but I'd swap the NS tone for mellow's in a heartbeat.
 

Happy Face

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What separates our Mellow One from the legion of serious and not so serious tinkerers is that he uses the max out of these filters live.

I will swing the pickup sweep around a little when playing out but it's set it and forget it beyond that.

The Mellow One is more active.

At first that sounded like overkill to me, as in "who will even notice the difference? And that's probably true most of the time. So why does Mellow bother to try?

The answer came to me a few days ago when I blasted the second Buggles CD. I found myself trying to parse out the synth patches like I did back when. I'd spend hours tweaking a Sound that would likely be lost in the mix. But it had to be done.

Bravo Mellow One!
 

Mosthigh

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That's a sweet tone in the video, not to mention some decent Casady chops. Those Maxima flats are pretty nice. I just put Pyramid flats on my newly acquired '67 Starfire I bass and I love the rubberiness in their playing not to mention their deep sound, although I haven't really had a chance to crank it yet. I think Jack may have also used Pyramid flats on the Guild(s), I'm pretty sure Phil Lesh did, anyways, not to mention McCartney on the Hofner.
I'm Intrigued by the concept that Maxima took over from Framus, whether it was just the string design, or if former Framus employees came with it. I just found a set of nos 70's Maxima short flats on ebay, although there is no packaging because they apparently came in bulk, they have the nylon on the tail ends. I pulled the trigger on them and am looking forward to trying them out. I could put them on my 2010 SG Gibson bass, but maybe just hold on to them until the Pyramids wear out on the Guild.
 

mellowgerman

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That's a sweet tone in the video, not to mention some decent Casady chops. Those Maxima flats are pretty nice. I just put Pyramid flats on my newly acquired '67 Starfire I bass and I love the rubberiness in their playing not to mention their deep sound, although I haven't really had a chance to crank it yet. I think Jack may have also used Pyramid flats on the Guild(s), I'm pretty sure Phil Lesh did, anyways, not to mention McCartney on the Hofner.
I'm Intrigued by the concept that Maxima took over from Framus, whether it was just the string design, or if former Framus employees came with it. I just found a set of nos 70's Maxima short flats on ebay, although there is no packaging because they apparently came in bulk, they have the nylon on the tail ends. I pulled the trigger on them and am looking forward to trying them out. I could put them on my 2010 SG Gibson bass, but maybe just hold on to them until the Pyramids wear out on the Guild.

Thanks for the kind words!
Though it's certainly possible that Jack used Pyramids at one point or another, he did state in a relatively recent interview (around the time that his original modified Starfire resurfaced) that his favorite strings on the Starfires were the Framus ones and that there was actually still a left-over NOS stash of them, from which the rediscovered bass would get a set. Not an exact quote as I don't have the interview on hand.
In any case, it sounds like your Maximas came from the same seller that I got mine from. They are fantastic strings. I actually just put a set on my Serek Midwestern and they are every bit as enjoyable on that bass. They just pair so well with Bisonic pickups.
Would be interested in hearing how you would compare them to a contemporary set of Pyramids!
 
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Happy Face

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Thanks for the kind words!
Though it's certainly possible that Jack used Pyramids at one point or another, he did state in a relatively recent interview (around the time that his original modified Starfire resurfaced) that his favorite strings on the Starfires were the Framus ones and that there was actually still a left-over NOS stash of them, from which the rediscovered bass would get a set. Not an exact quote as I don't have the interview on hand.
In any case, it sounds like your Maximas came from the same seller that I got mine from. They are fantastic strings. I actually just put a set on my Serek Midwestern and they are every bit as enjoyable on that bass. They just pair so well with Bisonic pickups.
Would be interested in hearing how you would compare them to a contemporary set of Pyramids!

Stepping in based on possibly faulty recollection....

Wasn't it said here that TI flats are closer to the later 60s Pyramids than the newer Pyramids?
 

mellowgerman

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Wasn't it said here that TI flats are closer to the later 60s Pyramids than the newer Pyramids?

I know for a fact I've heard somebody somewhere say that, but I don't remember who it was. Also, regardless of who it was, perhaps they used Pyramids back in the day and cycled through 247 different sets since and now have a skewed or questionable recollection of how they may have felt back then. The main reason why I say this is that I tried more contemporary Pyramid flats at least once, but I have not in probably 10 years and therefore avoid commenting on their nature because my preferences in feel, tension, and tone have all evolved as a result of playing different basses and different strings and listening to all sorts of music since that last Pyramid experience. I could also see having medium tension strings on one's bass, followed by high tension strings, would very possibly make you feel like those medium tension strings were very low tension. We need an NOS set of Pyramids to A/B/C with a new set of Pyramids and a set of TI's!
 

Mosthigh

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Found a bit of info on Phil and Jack using Pyramid Golds:

"Lesh has been linked with a variety of string types and guages. His Alembic modified Guild was loaded with Pyramid Gold Flatwounds in the early 1970s. According to Alembic luthier Rick Turner, “They had this amazing, supple feel and we loved the sound – very different from any other flatwound strings. Those strings were a big part of the ‘San Francisco bass sound’ “. Jack Cassidy’s Alembics were similarly equipped."

https://jam.buzz/extra/phil-lesh-gear-guide/
 

fronobulax

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The question which has been raised before is to what extent are Pyramid Gold Flatwounds as sold in the 60's and 70's the same strings that are sold today.
 

RVBASS

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I don’t know how new Pyramid Golds compare to those in the 70s, but I will say that they are very different sounding than TIs (to my ears anyway).

I use Pyramid Gold flats on all of my basses, they have a distinct thud like no other strings I’ve tried, very 70s Lesh sounding, or Jamerson Motown sound, both of which I love. I also find them good for jazz and EQing an upright bass sound (especially on a fretless).

I play Alembics and Guild Starfires. I’ve gone back and forth many times, and when I compare Pyramid Golds to TI Jazz Flats, I find the TIs to have a metallic quality. I prefer the Pyramid thud. :)

So that’s what my ears hear.
 

Mungi

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Opened the case this morning... and it has sprouted 2 new knobs! :eek: Anybody know how to cure this condition?!
In all seriousness though, this has been something I've thought about for some time. The filter electronics are very delicate and complicated, so things can always go wrong, plus a battery change mid-session could be a hassle, so my solution: add an alternate, passive circuit! It's a push/pull volume pot and normal tone control. With the push/pull in the down position, the active filter preamp is being used. When you pull the knob up though, it grabs the signal from the neck pickup and sends it through the passive harness. Aside from a quick fix for any time-consuming filter incidents, this also allows me to quickly tap into the classic, passive single-neck-pickup Starfire bass tones that this bass offered when I first got it 4 years ago. It just keeps getting more and more versatile. Looking forward to the day that it can toast a bagel and brew coffee for me!

20210316_181754~2.jpg
This is seriously the coolest thing I ever saw!
If you are looking to get yet another knob, get yourself a Villex Mid Boost. I have one in my SF -69, always on full.
 

mellowgerman

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This is seriously the coolest thing I ever saw!
If you are looking to get yet another knob, get yourself a Villex Mid Boost. I have one in my SF -69, always on full.

Thanks! I do love it so. Can't express just how happy this bass makes me.
I looked into the Villex booster. Very interesting indeed. I remember the Villex name although I have no recollection of the boost (or any other product they may offer), nor do I recall where I've heard about them in the past. Looks like it's right down my alley though!
The rotary switch looks most intriguing... is that the one you have? If so, do you find yourself using all 3 of the boost settings and how would you describe them?
I will say that I rarely ever have both pickups engaged fully/simultaneously on my Starfire because of the resulting mid-scoop. On my pickup pan/blend control I often come close to the center, but always shifted at least a little bit toward one or the other pickup. Maybe the mid-boost would open up some new tonal possibilities right there in the center
 
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