Starfire I & II

[NoahB]

Hey guys, I’m looking into purchasing a bass mainly to record with. I like the compactness and short-scale of the reissued Starfire Guilds and was wondering if some owners/players of these could give me their honest take on them and how they match up against other basses in that price range.

- Noah

 

[mavuser]

hello and welcome. not sure if u mean a vintage Starfire bass, one of the more recent import/reissues, or one of the very recent import/variants...but across the spectrum...any Starfire bass would be a great instrument, based on my experience at least. Only others i'd also consider are the vintage Guild JS-1 or JS-2 (solid like a Gibson SG shape), or a vintage or reissue Guild M-85-1 or M-85-2 Bluesbird bass (solid or chambered, club shape like a les paul, sort of)...or a Fender Mustang bass

 

[NoahB]

hello and welcome. not sure if u mean a vintage Starfire bass, one of the more recent import/reissues, or one of the very recent import/variants...but across the spectrum...any Starfire bass would be a great instrument, based on my experience at least. Only others i'd also consider are the vintage Guild JS-1 or JS-2 (solid like a Gibson SG shape), or a vintage or reissue Guild M-85-1 or M-85-2 Bluesbird bass (solid or chambered, club shape like a les paul, sort of)...or a Fender Mustang bass

Yes, I didn’t specify, definitely looking more so at the reissues!

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. Your budget and preference for new, used or vintage would help focus the answer. There is a hollow body tone that any Starfire will get that any solid body won't. All the Starfires are short scale which is a choice not everybody wants to make. The new Starfire I with the P style pickup has comparatively low price and all indications are that it has some of the Starfire characteristics. The Newark Street one pickup Starfire with Bisonic seems to have been dropped from the lineup but used ones should be available.

Nothing compares to my '67, including the reissues, but you would pay significantly more to get one. But some things are worth it.

Since you said "record" all my Bisonics pick up RF interference to some degree or another. I can easily address it - turn off the cell phone, don't play when the clothes are washing or dinner is being cooked, roll of the volume, etc. - but if you don't want to mess with that you may want to consider something with humbuckers.

There are threads about converting a new Starfire I from P style PU to Bisonic and one about shielding a Bisonic Starfire I because it was too noisy for the owner.

 

[mavuser]

i would try to get one with a Bisonic(s), over the P-bass pickup, if only for aesthetics...but the P-Starfire sounds the same or very close, and would do just fine, if u wind up with one of those.

try to check out a Fender Mustang bass also, definitely. even if u can find one made in Mexico, that would be a great move. even a Squire that just "has it." the Mustang has a hum cancelling pickup (split single coil in humbucking position) and u can change it to *any Mustang bass pickup u like...

 

[Minnesota Flats]

I've played both the Newark Street (Korean) Starfire I & II and a DeArmond Starfire II as well as a Westerly (USA) Starfire II. All have a body which is quite similar in size to a Gibson ES 330/335 or Epiphone Casino/Riviera/Sheraton (though the scale length is obviously longer).

When I first started transitioning from playing mostly guitar to playing mostly bass, I bought a Mustang (MIJ). I found the pickups to be rather lackluster so swapped in some Nordstrand NM4s, which yielded a noticeable, though not world-changing improvement. At that point, I found the Mustang to be ergonomically comfortable.

After moving on to playing Starfires, I found the Mustang felt rather "toy-like" and awkward to hold. It just feels "too small" to me now. This has partly to do with the Mustang having only 19 frets (vs. the SF’s 21) and partly to do with it having a much smaller, thinner body.

Note also that not all Mustangs feature the same fretboard radius or fret size: many vintage ones as well as the Japanese reissues have “vintage”-sized (narrow) frets and a 7.25” fretboard radius while many later (Mexican) ones have medium-jumbo frets and a 9.5” fretboard radius.

One other thing worth mentioning about the new, Indonesian-made Starfires (with the “P”-type pickup) is that the neck seems to be set deeper into the body than that of either the vintage, US-made and Korean-made reissues, which affects easy access to the upper frets.

I’m not trying to imply that any of these differences make one bass “better” than the other, just pointing out that there are some differences of which you should be aware.

Best thing to do is to try to play examples of as many of the different variations as you can find in order to discover what feels most comfortable and sounds best to you.

 

[mavuser]

a Mustang bass has a slightly shorter scale than a Starfire bass. the Mustang scale is like a Gibson or violin bass. but the strings size is the same as Guild since it goes thru the body of the Mustang. I want to say the Guild scale is 30.5 and the Mustang scale is 30.0 (inches).

 

[mavuser]

a quick search results in these 2 models of Mustang, one of each at the vintage and current specs that Minnesota Flats describes above (GC one is vintage specd, black signature relicd model at music zoo is moden specd). both look to be made in mexico. id go with one of those or a Starfire Bass with Bisonic(s), made in Korea if possible. also pretty sure i'd buy a Squire Mustang before the P-Starfire (but not positive)

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender/Vintera-60s-Mustang-Bass.gc

Fender Justin Meldal-Johnson Signature Mustang Bass Black

Known as a true renaissance man of the modern music scene, Justin Meldal-Johnsen’s bass credits include Beck, Nine Inch Nails and more. His production credits include Jimmy Eat World, Paramore and M83, among others. JMJ is a shining example of today's breed of multi-genre musician/producers...

www.themusiczoo.com

 

[DeArmond Hammer]

Hi, Noah, I recently took up the bass and the Starfire's 30.75" scale makes for an easier adjustment for a guitarist than the standard 34" scale, especially if you want to play it like a guitar, using all the fingers on your fretting hand. (My bass method book doesn't use the ring finger, at least not in the early chapters I've covered.)

The Starfires are beautiful instruments. I have a DeArmond Starfire bass and two Newark St. Starfire basses. I also have a couple full-scale Squier basses, but their looks can't compete with the Starfires'.

My Starfires are all two-pickup versions so hum is canceled when I use both pickups, as with single-coil pickups on a guitar.

 

[lungimsam]

I can only comment on my 2013 N.S. Starfire I bass.
This is in reference to playing clean with fingers, and not an overdriven sound.
It can sound good, but doesn't have the punch and clarity of a (industry standard) Pbass or a 4003 (non-industry standard) bass if that is what you are looking for.
It has a much mellower, softer spoken, less aggressive tone. But then it is a semi-hollow bass.
It needed to be heavily modded to silence the RF and AC noise for recording and live DI to board playing. But worked out in the end.
However, it plays on the left hand like a dream even way up above the 12th fret. The neck is superb. It is a very fun bass to play. So comfortable on the left hand. It will definitely make it easier to play difficult passages with it's closer string spacing and shortscale.
It definitely has it's own voice. Got it's own sound. Great for folk/folk rock. Anything mellow.
Hard to intonate low estring as the saddle doesn't have enough travel. But works good enough. Others say theirs are fine.
Other shortscale thoughts:
1. My shortscale Gibson Les Paul Tribute Double Cutaway Bass in worn brown sounds like half way between a 4003 and a Pbass. It has all the plusses of a shortscale bass and tonally blows away my Starfire I. But then I like a more aggressive tiger growly tone. Your taste may be different.
2. Mustangs sound (like a Pbass) and play great, too. But neck is better on my Gibson.
3. 2011 Gibson SG bass - plays like a dream, looks great, mine sounded awful.

If I was looking for a punchy, clear, powerful sounding shortscale bass, I would get the Gibson Les Paul Double Cutaway Tribute bass currently produced by Gibson.
If you are looking for a mellow sounding shortscale bass, then the Bisonic Starfire is where it's at.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

This could be another option, depending on what you're after. Also short scale and semi-hollow body construction. Humbucker and "split" coil pup configuration. More "modern" sound (and appearance), more punch and a broader tonal palette than the re-issue BiSonics. Can be top-loaded or strung through, so compatible with a wider range (short/medium scale) of string sets. I've seen these used as cheap as $600-$700, but generally for a bit more. Nut, neck and string spacing at bridge are all wider than either the Starfire or the Mustang, so might not feel as comfortable in the hand (especially that of a transitioning guitar player), but they are capable of producing some sweet sounds. No pickup selection switch: tone & volume pots and a third pot to pan continuously between the pups. Korean build quality on those I've played was superb. Personally, I find many of Reverend's color choices to be not very attractive, but that's just my opinion: others may see it differently. Here are some sound samples:




Dave responded to his favorably as well and he rarely hesitates to disparage things he doesn't like. This one sounds to be strung with rounds, which is how they come from the factory, I believe. The one in the other (above) video sounds like flats:

 

[fronobulax]

Epiphone Jack Casady Signature might be worth considering. Think of it as the bass someone who used Starfires and the first Alembic bass thought might be an improvement over both.

Realistically we are not going to be able to tell you what the best bass for the buck is. We can tell you which Guilds do some thing well and general characteristics of the Guilds.

 

[NoahB]

Great information everyone — thanks! Can I ask does anybody have any opinions on the Gretsch hollow body basses? Specifically the G5442BDC Electromatic short scale?

 

[Minnesota Flats]

Great information everyone — thanks! Can I ask does anybody have any opinions on the Gretsch hollow body basses? Specifically the G5442BDC Electromatic short scale?

1)-since the company's specs refer to "sound post bracing", I assume that it has a hollow rather than a semi-hollow body, which could make it more feedback prone

2)-looks like a floating bridge (they don't indicate that it is pinned). I've had a Gretsch guitar that had a floating bridge. Best way to change strings was to mark the position of the wooden bridge base with blue painter's tape and then change the strings one at a time, which helped prevent the bridge from moving and gave you a reference point (the tape) to which to return it if it did. The guitar also had a Bigsby on it, which made the floating bridge a bit more problematic, but that (of course) wouldn't be an issue on the bass in question. I've never found there to be any particular advantage to having a floating brideg as opposed to a properly-postioned, fixed bridge.

3)-body is about 5/8" deeper than that of a Starfire, which might make it a bit less comfortable to hold.

4)-nut is slightly wider than that of a Starfire or a Mustang, so I'd guess that the string spacing at the bridge is as well.

Those are just thoughts based on a quick scan of the factory PICs/specs: having never played one, I can't comment based on personal experience with that model.

 

[fronobulax]

Great information everyone — thanks! Can I ask does anybody have any opinions on the Gretsch hollow body basses? Specifically the G5442BDC Electromatic short scale?

Dunno but looking at the controls and layout I think I would be driven crazy.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

Dunno but looking at the controls and layout I think I would be driven crazy.

Other than having a master tone knob rather than separate tone knobs for each pup, seems otherwise pretty similar to a Starfire: pup selector switch, master volume and volume for each pup. My Gretsch guitar had the same layout (rather than the more standard Gretsch "mud" switch, so maybe that's why it seems more familiar to me.

 

[mavuser]

I would just get a nice SF bass or Mustang bass, or both.

Cassidy bass is long scale

 

[fronobulax]

Other than having a master tone knob rather than separate tone knobs for each pup, seems otherwise pretty similar to a Starfire: pup selector switch, master volume and volume for each pup. My Gretsch guitar had the same layout (rather than the more standard Gretsch "mud" switch, so maybe that's why it seems more familiar to me.

I am used to separate tone pots and like them. I don't like both a master volume and a PU selector and I am enough of a Luddite that I strongly prefer 1 PU instruments.

 

[DeArmond Hammer]

Can I ask does anybody have any opinions on the Gretsch hollow body basses? Specifically the G5442BDC Electromatic short scale?

I had an earlier model, the G5123B, with a medium (32") scale, and I have a recent Gretsch guitar from the same Electromatic line. Both are nice instruments. The Electromatics are built in Korea, and their quality is excellent, like that of Korean Starfires. There are slight differences in appearance and tone that may lean you toward either Gretsch or Guild. The Gretsch's hollow body gives it a somewhat more acoustic sound, which is great for some purposes. I ultimately traded my Gretsch bass away because I wasn't playing it as much as I was playing other basses.

If you want to record with just one pickup active, it may matter to you that the Gretsch has two humbucking pickups.