Starfire 1 LC - Jazz Tone ?

[advid]

..I've been playing guitar for 50+ years (pro and semi-pro)...Have owned Gibson / Fender / Gretsch in my time....
Recently (now fully retired) I decided to buy my first Ever Guild (Starfire 1 LC)...not the most expensve guitar around - i know...
Straight from the box (brought new) it played ectremely well - very little adjustment was needed - very pleased....
It produces a wide variety and range of sound - using the both the standard and single coil pushh pull controls...
Great for all sorts of music I thought - I play pop/rock/blues/jazz and I love picking like Chet and Merle...
The only sound I couldn't produce to my liking was a 'real' earthy jazz tone ? I changed the strings to 11/50's flatwounds but even this didn't do it for me....
I know it's not a deep 175 or L5 body but i really thought it would be better...
I'm even thinking of putting on a rosewood or ebony bridge to thicken the sound and perhaps lessen the sustain a bit....
Perhaps I'm asking too much ? Any comments from anyone on here would be most welcome....I'm a 'newby' by the way - just joined...

 

[7GuildsandanSG]

Welcome! Photos help us think.

 

[GAD]

I think part of your battle is going to be the fact that the SFI isn’t a hollowbody so it’s never really going to behave like one. That plus the depth and the quality of the electronics are going to make your quest an uphill battle.

 

[matsickma]

Not sure what model SF1 you referenced? You indicated LC. They come in Single Cutaway (SC) and Double Cutaway (DC) with mahogany or maple.
M

 

[advid]

Not sure what model SF1 you referenced? You indicated LC. They come in Single Cutaway (SC) and Double Cutaway (DC) with mahogany or maple.
M

HI....the guitar is a single cut-away model....Fixed tailpiece/bridge with a block underneath. for support....

 

[Bernie]

I believe thicker strings could help ; a guy I had as a teacher (theoritically) for a while, was using 'medium' strings he told us (likely flat wound) ; quite a renown "jazz" musician there too, as he's been playing duets with Tal Farlow - when the latter was visiting my country (in Europe)... Pick-ups too, would have their share it seems...

 

[JohnW63]

Would an active EQ pedal be worth trying to "sculpt" the tone? I think the tone controls on the guitar are passive. A pedal would allow you to change more of the tone.

 

[advid]

I believe thicker strings could help ; a guy I had as a teacher (theoritically) for a while, was using 'medium' strings he told us (likely flat wound) ; quite a renown "jazz" musician there too, as he's been playing duets with Tal Farlow - when the latter was visiting my country (in Europe)... Pick-ups too, would have their share it seems...

..my main amp is a custom made (not valve) 25 watt - 10 inch speaker... It has Bass/Middle/Treble - a second overdrive channel plus reverb and slap-back effects..... I've been 'tweaking' all the tone controls since i got the Guild - many nice sounds but nothing like a jazz guitar sound that suits me I'm afraid.....I've got other guitars that I like for jazz playing....JUst a bit dissappointed with my first Guild....maybe not a keeper or perhaps I was expecting too much...After all it's not too expensive - value for money - very good overall....

 

[Bernie]

The amp doesn't seem made up for jazz (at least acoustic-like kind of jazz) either - 'overdrive channel I read' -, so that's not really what you're bound for...Maybe I'd think of trying to keep one mike and change the neck pick-up for something smooth like a Gibson P-90 for instance. If you're good at electronics and considering you haven't paid that much, why not...Some of the guys here know a lot about various mikes used by Guild and could give you good advice too...Just wait till they pop in. What's your back and sides made of (they wanted to know) ?

 

[geoguy]

Tim Lerch has some advice re: getting warm jazz tones from a modern tele . . . perhaps some of his suggestions would work for you, too:

 

[Uke]

..I've been playing guitar for 50+ years (pro and semi-pro)...Have owned Gibson / Fender / Gretsch in my time....
Recently (now fully retired) I decided to buy my first Ever Guild (Starfire 1 LC)...not the most expensve guitar around - i know...
Straight from the box (brought new) it played ectremely well - very little adjustment was needed - very pleased....
It produces a wide variety and range of sound - using the both the standard and single coil pushh pull controls...
Great for all sorts of music I thought - I play pop/rock/blues/jazz and I love picking like Chet and Merle...
The only sound I couldn't produce to my liking was a 'real' earthy jazz tone ? I changed the strings to 11/50's flatwounds but even this didn't do it for me....
I know it's not a deep 175 or L5 body but i really thought it would be better...
I'm even thinking of putting on a rosewood or ebony bridge to thicken the sound and perhaps lessen the sustain a bit....
Perhaps I'm asking too much ? Any comments from anyone on here would be most welcome....I'm a 'newby' by the way - just joined...

I had the same problem. The Starfire is a fine guitar -- I just never could get that "'real' earthy jazz tone." My solution: I bought an X 175 and have lived happily ever after. As to the Tim Lerch Tele thing, well . . . . a Tele sure isn't a Starfire. Good luck.

 

[advid]

Tim Lerch has some advice re: getting warm jazz tones from a modern tele . . . perhaps some of his suggestions would work for you, too:

.....thanks for the video link......I've got both a Strat and a Tele and I must say that (to me) they both produce a 'nicer' jazz tone (when required) than this Starfire.... OK - they're solid guitars but they can both produce a jazz sound that I'm happy with for what they are ....

 

[advid]

I had the same problem. The Starfire is a fine guitar -- I just never could get that "'real' earthy jazz tone." My solution: I bought an X 175 and have lived happily ever after. As to the Tim Lerch Tele thing, well . . . . a Tele sure isn't a Starfire. Good luck.

....I'm thinking along the same lines as you..... This model Starfire is a very versatile sounding guitar but overall t's not sounding quite as I expected - perhaps it's time to move on ?..... For me I think it will become an under the bed sleeper - not a keeper...

 

[Uke]

....I'm thinking along the same lines as you..... This model Starfire is a very versatile sounding guitar but overall t's not sounding quite as I expected - perhaps it's time to move on ?..... For me I think it will become an under the bed sleeper - not a keeper...

It may well be that your Starfire is more versatile than mine -- mine is a Hoboken Starfire II from 1965. It was been appraised by George Gruhn back in the early 2000s, and Hans Moust has pics of it in his files somewhere. So, I keep it mainly as a novelty and rarely play it. As I mentioned, I could never dial in that jazz sound, even with flat wound strings. And different amps (from Deluxe Reverbs, Princeton Reverbs, and my current Pro Jr.) didn't seem to help any either. I've had a few sleepers as well, but after listening to their snoring I finally moved them along!

 

[walrus]

Although "jazz tone" can mean different things, this guy does it pretty well...




So does this guy:




And just for fun, I'm not exactly sure what this is!




walrus

 

[Uke]

To my ear, the second guy comes the closest -- wonder what he's playing through (amp, board, ?).

 

[GAD]

To my ear, the second guy comes the closest -- wonder what he's playing through (amp, board, ?).

Those are very different pickups in that guitar.

 

[GAD]

It may well be that your Starfire is more versatile than mine -- mine is a Hoboken Starfire II from 1965. It was been appraised by George Gruhn back in the early 2000s, and Hans Moust has pics of it in his files somewhere. So, I keep it mainly as a novelty and rarely play it. As I mentioned, I could never dial in that jazz sound, even with flat wound strings. And different amps (from Deluxe Reverbs, Princeton Reverbs, and my current Pro Jr.) didn't seem to help any either. I've had a few sleepers as well, but after listening to their snoring I finally moved them along!

You'd be shocked at how many pics of guitars Hans has.

 

[Uke]

You'd be shocked at how many pics of guitars Hans has.

What's even more shocking is that he can probably put his hands on any one of them pretty quickly!

 

[mad dog]

I've not played the SF I, so no experience with that guitar.

One thing that can help is to not play with volume full up on the guitar. I hack away at jazz sounds with most any guitar. Staying on the neck p/u, rolling off quite a bit of tone, a good half of volume - and letting the amp do the work - usually gets me closer. Also, I always play with mild clean boost, which also fattens the sound.

All that said, hollowbodies - for me, with a strong preference to single coil p/u equipped - are where it's at for the earthy jazz tones. Teles can get there too.