ST303 - Is this Right?

[GAD]

You mean you don't believe me?

You could tell me that my right foot turned to cabbage and I'd believe you.

I'd still want pics, though!

 

[GGJaguar]

You could tell me that my right foot turned to cabbage and I'd believe you.

I'd still want pics, though!

You must have lived in the Show Me state. <snicker>

 

[DThomasC]

I had always guessed with zero evidence that the Studio Series were based on one Starfire or another, maybe a double cut SFIII. But looking at photos I can see that they're different. The cutaways are slightly different. The neck joins the body at a different fret.

All of this makes me wonder: what empty spot in their lineup where they trying to fill with the Studios? Somewhere I saw that they were meant to be entry level. Where they less expensive than SFII's and III's? How did they save money building them besides the Mickey Mouse pickups?

It must have cost money to develop the line and tool up to build it. What was the motivation?

 

[walrus]

All of this makes me wonder: what empty spot in their lineup where they trying to fill with the Studios? Somewhere I saw that they were meant to be entry level. Where they less expensive than SFII's and III's? How did they save money building them besides the Mickey Mouse pickups?

It must have cost money to develop the line and tool up to build it. What was the motivation?

I always assumed Guild was copying the Gibson Barney Kessel model. But now I'm wondering - which came first?



walrus

 

[matsickma]

I've seen this feature on the few I came across over the years. However I also encountered two 303 with high action. Began to think this model with Guildsby was prone to it. However not all have the issue.

M

 

[Walter Broes]

I always assumed Guild was copying the Gibson Barney Kessel model. But now I'm wondering - which came first?

The Gibson Kessel definitely came first, the first ones came out in '61. The Gibson Trini Lopez Deluxe model has the same basic double-cutaway body came out in '64. Guild's studio models came out in '68.

Kay had a double sharp cutaway thin hollowbody too - actually looks a little more like the Guild, because it was a thinline as well. Harmony's "Rebel" was another thinline with two sharp cuts, although the cutaways are not quite as pronounced as the other guitars mentioned. There are quite a few 60's Japanese guitars with a similar shape as well, from fairly mild to pretty crazy and wild looking.

It's a bit of a mystery to me what Guild was thinking, as none of the previous double sharp cutaway hollowbodies by other makers appear to have had much succes. And even when the vintage guitar market took off, it took a long time before Gibson's Kessels went up in price, in fact quite a few of the early ones were taken apart and scavenged for their PAF pickups and other period Gibson parts.

 

[walrus]

Thanks for the info, Walter!

walrus

 

[Quantum Strummer]

If I remember right the Coral Longhorn guitars & basses made by Danelectro in the late '60s were prone to a similar issue. The necks would drive down into the (hollow) body under string tension, causing a hump. Gibson's Barney Kessels often have a slight neck hump at the neck/body joint for a similar if not the same reason.

-Dave-

 

[DThomasC]

My interpretation is that they came that way from the factory. Is there a reason that double Florentine cutaways should provide less neck support than double Venetian cutaways (SF IV, ES335, ...)?

 

[GAD]

My interpretation is that they came that way from the factory. Is there a reason that double Florentine cutaways should provide less neck support than double Venetian cutaways (SF IV, ES335, ...)?

The Studios are fully hollow and the SF4s are semi-hollow.

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

The Studios are fully hollow and the ST4s are semi-hollow.

To elaborate further, there's no center block running down the length of the guitar to offer support.

 

[Rich Cohen]

I had always guessed with zero evidence that the Studio Series were based on one Starfire or another, maybe a double cut SFIII. But looking at photos I can see that they're different. The cutaways are slightly different. The neck joins the body at a different fret.

All of this makes me wonder: what empty spot in their lineup where they trying to fill with the Studios? Somewhere I saw that they were meant to be entry level. Where they less expensive than SFII's and III's? How did they save money building them besides the Mickey Mouse pickups?

It must have cost money to develop the line and tool up to build it. What was the motivation?

Why do you characterize the pups as 'mickey mouse'? Yes they are smaller, but what is about them that you don't like? Also, my understanding is that the STs were based on Gibson's 'Barney Kessel model.

 

[DThomasC]

Why do you characterize the pups as 'mickey mouse'? Yes they are smaller, but what is about them that you don't like? Also, my understanding is that the STs were based on Gibson's 'Barney Kessel model.

There's a certain pickup that Guild put on some low end guitars during the 60's that are nicknamed "Mickey Mouse" pickups. That's just how they're identified. Even Hans mentions it in his book. Rumor is that the name was coined by workers at the Guild factory, but I can't verify that. See the discussion with photos on page one of this thread.

As for the ST's being modeled after the Gibson Barney Kessel, you might be right. They both have double Florentine cutaways...

 

[SFIV1967]

There's a certain pickup that Guild put on some low end guitars during the 60's that are nicknamed "Mickey Mouse" pickups. Rumor is that the name was coined by workers at the Guild factory, but I can't verify that.

That's explained by Hans on page 32.
Ralf

 

[DThomasC]

That's explained by Hans on page 32.
Ralf

That must be where I read about it. Not remembering the source I wasn't prepared to claim it as anything more than a rumor. Thanks!

 

[Shakeylee]

if i could find the book for a reasonable price , of course i would buy one. i am sure it is worth the $500 +, but i need some gear first.

so,who made the two post franz, post dearmonde 2000 single coils?

the mickey mouse,and the other one?

 

[Default]

The mickey mouse was an in-house design, to my knowledge.

 

[SFIV1967]

so,who made the two post Franz, post DeArmond 2000 single coils? the mickey mouse,and the other one?

Both Guild made.

Mickey Mouse:

The other one (either Chrome or White top)

Ralf

 

[zizala]

This is so interesting you are all tempting me to venture past 1963!